A re-post from Joel C. Rosenberg’s blog.
It is getting worse. The time for the watchmen upon the wall to arise is now!
A re-post from Joel C. Rosenberg’s blog.
It is getting worse. The time for the watchmen upon the wall to arise is now!
Yes, I tried a different look to appease one of my critics.
Having made a brief outline of things to come, I stated, “After what seems like days of panic there will be three and one half years of relative peace.”
You rebutted that statement with, “The 2nd half of Daniels seven years is the Great Tribulation..”
While that might be excruciatingly correct, you gave no scriptural backing as a foundation for your argument and, in essence you have assumed that there will be little to no tribulation effects until you say so, and that the horrors of this seven-year period come only at the 2nd half. Since you feel that the horrors are exclusive to the second half what do you do with the escalating acts of violence against Christians, and bizarrely against the opposing Muslim sect that loses the day’s battle? If escalating violence for the sake of power does not get your attention, how about the concept of shoving my religion down your throat by cutting off your hand or your head, raping and then beating your wife merely because she is not a Muslim, burning down your church with all it’s members in it, all merely because you will not bow before my god.
You say that Christians must go through the tribulation. If that is a solid, strict concept in your mind then you have placed all of us in the Great Tribulation, a time of judgment against the nations and Israel, ignoring scripture that states, “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,” 1 Thessalonians 5:9 KJV, and effectively called God a liar.
Whether you call it Jacob’s troubles, as Ezekiel did, or a time of wrath, or judgment, it is all serving the same purpose, God is cleaning the house – so to speak. I feel compelled to point out what Jesus made very clear, it will be as in the days of Noah and Lot. In both examples God delivered them, by removing them from the judgment, and immediately the method of destruction came. Read this in Luke 17, Matthew 24, Genesis 6:11-7:6, Genesis 18:20 – 19:26
If God is cleaning house, why?
Because Israel violated the covenant, over and over again. Psalms 89:31-33 ESV if they violate my statutes and do not keep my commandments, (32) then I will punish their transgression with the rod and their iniquity with stripes, (33) but I will not remove from him my steadfast love or be false to my faithfulness.
Because of the pride, evil, and iniquity of the world. Isaiah 13:11 JPS And I will visit upon the world their evil, and upon the wicked their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the tyrants.
There are passages scattered all over the bible defining why God is bringing judgment upon the earth. Look at the example of Noah and you will find that the earth was filled with violence and every thought of man was continually evil. Look around you, is it that much different today?
John, in Revelation 6:2 states, “And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.” This is the beginnings of the seven-year period, and yet you already have a man with bow without arrows and yet conquering. We are nowhere close to the mid-point, the time of the Great Tribulation, as you have pointed out, and yet you would be hard pressed to say that wrath has not begun.
We do not know how much time passes until the second rider shows up. Revelation 6:4 KJV “And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.” Again we are distanced from the mid-point and yet you cannot deny that some form of pain is being pressed into the world.
Romans 1:18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Calling God’s actions by other names does not change his intent. This passage in Romans calls it wrath and tells us it is revealed from heaven. Is what John sees directed at the negligent Christian community? NO! God’s wrath is directed at ungodliness, the unrighteousness of men, and those who hold the truth in unrighteousness. Undoubtedly any of these aspects are demonstrative of our own bad behaviors as Christians, that is not what he talking about.
Let’s look at Romans 1:18 for a moment.
“ungodliness” – The Greek word is asebeia, meaning NO reverence for God. Even within the church body there are those that have no respect for God.
“the unrighteousness of men” – Unrighteousness is the Greek word adikia, meaning the act of injustice. Webster’s dictionary tells us that injustice is any violation of another’s rights.
“who hold the truth in unrighteousness;” – Hold is the Greek word katecho and means to suppress, bridle or withhold. This last aspect, while not necessarily an act of violence is an act of abuse for in doing so they are keeping people away from truth by a variety of methods. And for what means?
This is not the mislead Christian, stumbling over some concept as they walk out this lifestyle of ours. This is intentional acts of impeding others from finding the truth. Paul told us (1Jn 4:3, 2Jn 1:7) that the antichrist is already in the world.
Ephesians 5:6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things comes the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Vain words, what does that mean? Empty words, devoid of truth, nullifying God in the lives of people, causing people to be disobedient, and subject to wrath.
Colossians 3:5-6 KJV Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: (6) For which things’ sake the wrath of God comes on the children of disobedience:
In this case the wrath of God is coming upon the children of disobedience, this covers a lot of people, and verse 5 defines what makes them disobedient. The Greek word for disobedience is apeitheia and means obstinate opposition.
Ponder the meaning of the word obstinate for a moment: Stubborn; pertinaciously adhering to an opinion or purpose; fixed firmly in resolution; not yielding to reason, arguments or other means.
Luke 24:44-47 ESV Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” (45) Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, (46) and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, (47) and that repentance and forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.
Romans 5:9 KJV Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.
Romans 8:1-4 ESV There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (2) For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. (3) For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, (4) in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
2 Corinthians 5:17 ESV Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
Ephesians 2:3 KJV Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Ephesians 2:3 speaks in the past tense when it says, “and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.” That is not who we are once we accept Jesus Christ as our redemption and life.
1 Thessalonians 1:10 KJV (10) And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
Luke 21 is one in which you need to show the context.
Luke 21:23 KJV But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
In Luke 21:20 Jesus says, “And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.” So based upon this passage who is he speaking of? Israel, and specifically Jerusalem. As such he is talking about the Jews. So to say wrath upon a people he is talking about wrath upon the Jews. Why? Because Israel rejected him, over and over. They will turn to him now. Can you see in this instance that God is directing his wrath toward a specific people group, and not a generalized body of Christ.
I suspect that most people feel vulnerable to wrath because they lack an understanding of who they are in Christ Jesus.
Romans 3:21-25 GW Now, the way to receive God’s approval has been made plain in a way other than Moses’ Teachings. Moses’ Teachings and the Prophets tell us this. (22) Everyone who believes has God’s approval through faith in Jesus Christ. There is no difference between people. (23) Because all people have sinned, they have fallen short of God’s glory. (24) They receive God’s approval freely by an act of his kindness through the price Christ Jesus paid to set us free from sin. (25) God showed that Christ is the throne of mercy where God’s approval is given through faith in Christ’s blood. In his patience God waited to deal with sins committed in the past.
We understand this concept of God’s approval as being our receipt of his righteous blessing because we have faith in Jesus Christ. A word used commonly in many translations is propitiation. It merely means that Jesus Christ’s actions for us and toward us was enough. Sin, our broken condition, required, a payment, and that was usually done through a bloody sacrifice. If you watched the movie or read the book, “The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe” then you got a small dose of understanding, for the Witch made it clear that she had the right to blood for the representative man-child had committed treason against the kingdom and his own kind. Aslan did not argue the point, but made himself the sacrifice instead of the boy. The price paid for your life was made by Jesus Christ upon the cross. All that is left is your acceptance of the one who made it on your behalf; Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
When it comes to severe tribulation, a simple look at the Muslim countries of the world and you will find that Christians are already going through it, and have been for many years. The violence against Christians has taken a dramatic upswing with the rise of Muslim majority populations and recent political takeovers. You are not going to stop this with violence, only prayer can hold it back, for you are dealing with powerful, devilish angels that fell with Satan, and their influence on people that seem to enjoy invoking pain upon people while their main motivation is power.
2 Thessalonians 2:5-8 CEV (5) Don’t you remember that I told you this while I was still with you? (6) You already know what is holding this wicked one back until it is time for him to come. (7) His mysterious power is already at work, but someone is holding him back. And the wicked one won’t appear until that someone is out of the way. (8) Then he will appear, but the Lord Jesus will kill him simply by breathing on him. He will be completely destroyed by the Lord’s glorious return.
Even if the passage tells us plainly that someone is holding back the evil one, isn’t it plain to see that not everyone is being restrained. Look, Paul already made that clear in 2Thessalonians 2:7 when he said, (CEV) “His mysterious power is already at work”. Whose power? Satan’s, as he works through evil people. We have seen this repeated throughout history. One of the most vile was Antiochus as he desecrated the temple, a sign of things to come.
Paul had preached this message to the Thessalonian church and is now reminding them again. We, who are believers, are the one that is holding him back, and with him the onslaught of evil.
John MacArthur’s commentary conservatively tells us that the restraints can have many aspects, “These include: (1) human government; (2) preaching of the gospel; (3) the binding of Satan; (4) the providence of God; (5) the Jewish state; (6) the church; (7) the Holy Spirit; and (8) Michael, the angel. Whatever now restrains the Antichrist of verses 2Th_2:3-4, 2Th_2:8-10 from being revealed in the fullness of his apostasy and evil, must be more than human or even angelic power. The power that holds back Satan from bringing the final apostasy and unveiling of his Satan-possessed false Christ must be divinely supernatural. It must be God’s power in operation that holds back Satan, so that the man of sin, the son of destruction, won’t be able to come until God permits it by removing the restraining power.”
The problem I have with the human government side of this is: within the United States, laws are changing rapidly. Those of us who speak out against the weakening of laws or the removal of protections by law are becoming labeled as terrorists. We are no longer looking for those who wish to destroy the nation as the enemy, but those who wish to preserve it’s sanity as the problem. Jonathon Cahn wrote the book “The Harbinger”, a sign of things to come. In it he describes how this nation has not repented, even though the calls and signs have come to do so. We have failed to repent and turn this around and this nation will be punished for its arrogance. There is always a chance for repentance; all it takes is for a few people with backbones to pray. Pray that God withholds the enemy. I believe that many have done that over this nation or we would have seen far greater destruction by now.
Joel Richardson’s book, “The Mideast Beast” scripturally defines why the antichrist will be a middle east Muslim. Sure, he will come off as a moderate at first, but that is while his forces continue to bleed out the middle eastern Christian community. Israel will have suffered a tremendous attack and therefore have the need to sign a peace treaty. That treaty will correspond with the rapture of the church, the introduction of the antichrist, and a rapid increase in violence and destruction globally.
In trying to refocus for a moment; I have no doubt that multiple scenarios will be come together at one time. With the level of violence in the Arab world already as high as it is and little to bring it under control, how do you expect that to not spill over into America and other, so-called civilized nations. We have Mosques in almost every city with Mullahs teaching the edicts of the Qu’ran, therefore it is a logical assumption that a hatred of those outside the faith (Islam) is being taught as well.
(We assume that the word might be Jihad, the confusion for us that do not understand, is that Jihad is a way of life for the Muslim, the Qu’ran teaches this, and deception is the highest and most honorable form of Jihad, therefore Jihad is quite probably being performed on a daily basis around you.
The problem with Islam is: The potential for explosive harm is there. Do not be foolish enough to think it cannot happen, for it already is. Don’t even try to tell me that while this antichrist declares peace that there will be peace; there will be pandemonium. What makes it worse is that while the impact of his control will be centrally felt and located in the middle east, those Muslims living in this country will attempt to assert control and power as well, and they will attempt to invoke Sharia law over you, where ever they can.
Turn your lives over to Jesus Christ even now. Ask the Holy Spirit to empower you and he will. Cry out in the name of Jesus Christ, for that name alone carries power. You can stop the enemy in his tracks. The story of the three Hebrew men that Nebuchadnezzar had thrown into the furnace is not merely to entertain you. It was meant to show you that God is in control and stop the effects of the enemy. Put your trust in him and speak specifically against these things. In the name of Jesus command them to turn away. Call down God’s vengeance upon them. Ask God to hide you. Do what ever the Holy Spirit speaks to your heart to do. Listen to him for he will direct you.
This is not a time of fear but of power. I know this for I saw it as I read the scriptures. Detractors will die as they sit in unbelief, either that or they will convert to Islam, worshiping the beast and his false prophet, and they will condemn themselves to the flames that the antichrist is condemned to. Do not do that, no matter what the cost. Turn your eyes upon Jesus Christ and he will bring you, his saints, into the kingdom. A kingdom filled with joy, and you will reign with him for the thousand years.
Turn your life to him now and enjoy a hope, knowing that eternity with the one who has loved you since time began is yours. You can have hope. There is a life with him, and his name is Jesus Christ.
You challenged the concept of the tribulation being judgment, referring back to the seals and the plagues of Revelation as if they were some separate entity. You also told me that you spend little to no time reading the old testament, so here is the underlying problem.
I think an attempt at establishing what this time we call the tribulation is, is in order.
You challenged the concept of the tribulation being judgment, referring back to the seals and the plagues of Revelation as if they were some separate entity. You also told me that you spend little to no time reading the old testament, so here is the underlying problem.
I think an attempt at establishing what this time we call the tribulation is, is in order.
Jeremiah 30:7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob’s trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.
Without a comparative look at the Old Testament we might not have any understanding of what Jacob’s troubles is. A clear aspect of the passage is “that day”. I believe the reference is to “the day of the Lord.” This day plays a significant role in our understanding of Jacob’s troubles. The fact that Jacob is associated with the beginnings of Israel is a huge clue.
The passage also states that “he shall be saved out of it.” Who then is the “he” referring to since Jacob is long since passed? God seems to not be looking for a singular man, but more toward an entity or perhaps a nation; the nation Israel. Why would there be a reference to being saved out of something when Israel is experiencing an unprecedented peace now? Perhaps we are ignoring the obvious signs, given by prophecy of a time when there will be a tremendous outcry for peace.
Without an understanding of scripture how would you know that “that day” will come at a time when people are saying “peace, peace”. There is always an alternative possibility that requires some thought. What if this is a scenario where the people are crying out for peace because they need it? Think about the situation in Israel, as you read this. Iran is crying out for the absolute destruction of Israel and they are building the assets that would enable them to do something like that. Scripture tells that the damage will be great at some point with a two-thirds loss of Israel’s population, but that will not happen tomorrow. It will only happen after some ruler makes a peace treaty with Israel for a seven-year period, which he will break half way through the time period. At that time Israel will be attacked from every flank. There will be horror in the streets like you never thought possible.
John MacArthur’s commentary states: time of Jacob’s trouble. This period of unprecedented difficulty for Israel, as the verse defines, is set in a context of Israel’s final restoration. It is best equated with the time of tribulation (cf. Jer_30:8-9) just before Christ’s second advent, mentioned elsewhere (Dan_12:1; Mat_24:21-22) and described in detail (Rev. 6-19).
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which stands for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Michael, the Angel, steps up in behalf of “the children of thy people”, the Children of Israel. References to “a nation” and “thy people” are clear references to Israel.
Matthew 24:21-22 KJV For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
Again I quote from John MacArthur: great tribulation. The words “has not been” and “nor ever shall be”—along with the description that follows—identify this as the yet-future time in which God’s wrath shall be poured out on the earth (see note on Rev_7:14). Jesus’ descriptions of the cataclysms that follow closely resemble the outpouring of divine wrath described in the bowl judgments of Revelation 16 and His subsequent appearing in Revelation 19 (see note on Mat_24:30).
The entire chapter of Matthew 24 is talking about the end, but there is a context to Matthew 24 and it lies in the question that the disciples ask Jesus.
Matthew 24:3 KJV And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
The sign of his coming (one of the many references to “the day of the Lord”) is at the end of the 7 year period, and it is definitively the time when Jesus shall return physically to the earth. Realistically, if you consider all the events that scripture defines will happen, then perhaps they are all signs of his coming.
The Bible Knowledge Commentary, by John F. Walvoord and Roy B. Zuck states,
“To what “time of trouble” was Jeremiah referring? Some have felt that he was pointing to the coming fall of Judah to Babylon or to the later fall of Babylon to Medo-Persia. However, in both of these periods the Northern Kingdom of Israel was not affected. It had already gone into captivity (in 722 b.c.). A better solution is to see Jeremiah referring to the still-future Tribulation period when the remnant of Israel and Judah will experience a time of unparalleled persecution (Dan_9:27; Dan_12:1; Mat_24:15-22). The period will end when Christ appears to rescue His elect (Rom_11:26) and establish His kingdom (Mat_24:30-31; Mat_25:31-46; Rev_19:11-21; Rev_20:4-6).”
While there are some clear time frames involved, many contend that the “day of the Lord” is the entire seven-year period. Others make assertions that the great tribulation arrives at the mid point and only lasts three and one half years. If you invest some time looking into this mid-point aspect it is clear that persecution escalates from then on, making the idea that no one would survive a much more realistic scenario.
Look at this passage from the NT.
2 Thessalonians 2:2 (DRC)(The Holy Bible Translated From The Latin Vulgate) That you be not easily moved from your sense, nor be terrified, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by epistle, as sent from us, as if the day of the Lord were at hand.
The Thessalonian church was asking because it feared that the day of the Lord had come already. If they were talking about the time of destruction that so many references to “the day of Lord” refer to, then I believe the discussion might have taken a completely different turn, but Paul reassured them that for them, it had not come, therefore they could rest in the hope that they would meet him in the air, on that day; another day altogether.
In 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 KJV Paul tells the church, and us, (51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, (52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
If you try to make this correlate with the trumpets of Revelation then you will only provoke your confusion, for the trumpets of Revelation are part of the judgment period. Ask yourself as you increase in knowledge of end times events, how many raptures are recorded? The answer is two, and they both happen after the end of the seven-year period.
The first rapture is of those slain for their testimony during this horrible time. God calls them saints and they get to reign with him during the thousand-years. The second resurrection of the dead is at the end of the thousand-year reign. None of these should be considered to be in Christ, for if they had been they would have been caught up to be with him in the air, and that did not happen. These are the one that have died outside of a firm acceptance of God as Lord and his son Jesus Christ. They are brought before the Great White throne and judged. Although we often speak of these people as doomed to hell, if you spend some time studying this out you will find that even in this God still shows mercy to many.
Ezekiel 30:3 KJV For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.
Joel chapter 2 is one that I heard often in my pentecostal circles where prophetic speakers would come and share what God laid upon their hearts.
Joel 2:28-29 KJV And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: (29) And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
If you spend anytime reading Joel you will find it filled with encouragement, and gloom.
Joel 2:1-2 KJV Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD comes, for it is nigh at hand; (2) A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
You have to find the distinction as to when this “day of the Lord” comes. I believe that this points to the physical manifestation of the Lord upon the earth at the end of the seven-year period. It is not going to be a pretty day, and I believe the effects of his coming will be seen globally. You cannot forget that this is a Jewish oriented book, whether you wish to accept that fact or not is irrelevant. The Jew reads something like “blow the trumpet in Zion” and there is an immediate recognition of the sound of the shofar giving out a call.
If you do as I did, and merely pursue the word judgment through the simple concordance at the back of most bibles, you will taken to Isaiah 66 as I was. God, through Isaiah contrasts the humble and contrite with the what ever the opposite is. Though what to call the opposite is not made distinct in the NIV, it is safe to presume the selfish, manipulative, and those who refuse to follow God’s commands. Webster’s dictionary describes the humble as being submissive, or penitent, in complete opposition to the selfish and manipulative.
What are hiGod’s commands for the NT believer? Few considering we live in an age of grace and mercy. We are to believe in the Name of Jesus, and his redeeming work on the cross that brought us forgiveness for sins, but what does that mean to us? It means we have a hope; the same message that Paul brought to the Thessalonian church when they struggled over the possibility that they had missed the rapture. If your sins have been forgiven and you believe in the Son, then you have a hope for the future with Him in Heaven, just as he said.
Isaiah 66 starting at verse 3 describes those in opposition to God, how they operate, and what will happen to them.
Isaiah 66:3-4 NIV But whoever sacrifices a bull is like one who kills a person, and whoever offers a lamb is like one who breaks a dog’s neck; whoever makes a grain offering is like one who presents pig’s blood, and whoever burns memorial incense is like one who worships an idol. They have chosen their own ways, and they delight in their abominations; (4) so I also will choose harsh treatment for them and will bring on them what they dread. For when I called, no one answered, when I spoke, no one listened. They did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me.”
Why? For when I called, no one answered; When I spoke, no one listened.
Perhaps the question to ask, like some nightmarish movie, is what do you dread? Israel is about the same size as New Jersey and all of their neighbors are hostile toward them. Put yourself in their shoes, especially now, then tell me what your greatest fear would be.
Here is that word you seem to have so much trouble with, judgment.
Isaiah 66:14-16 NIV When you see this, your heart will rejoice and you will flourish like grass; the hand of the LORD will be made known to his servants, but his fury will be shown to his foes. (15) See, the LORD is coming with fire, and his chariots are like a whirlwind; he will bring down his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. (16) For with fire and with his sword the LORD will execute judgment on all people, and many will be those slain by the LORD.
Jeremiah 25:29 NIV See, I am beginning to bring disaster on the city that bears my Name, and will you indeed go unpunished? You will not go unpunished, for I am calling down a sword on all who live on the earth, declares the LORD Almighty.’
Another harsh example, but in this case he clearly deems it punishment.
Judgment, I suppose would be the sentence prescribed, punishment is the carrying out of the act. People, in a civilized world, do not get punished for no reason. God has already spelled out the sentence for us.
Jeremiah 46:10 NIV But that day belongs to the Lord, the LORD Almighty– a day of vengeance, for vengeance on his foes. The sword will devour till it is satisfied, till it has quenched its thirst with blood. For the Lord, the LORD Almighty, will offer sacrifice in the land of the north by the River Euphrates.
Ezekiel 30:2-3 NIV “Son of man, prophesy and say: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: “‘Wail and say, “Alas for that day!” (3) For the day is near, the day of the LORD is near– a day of clouds, a time of doom for the nations.
Joel 3:2 NIV I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will put them on trial for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel, because they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.
Joel’s prophecy should stand out for God states clearly that he, “will put them on trial for what they did”. That sounds like judgment to me.
Isaiah 13:6 NIV Wail, for the day of the LORD is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty.
Isaiah 13:9 NIV See, the day of the LORD is coming –a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger– to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it.
Isaiah 13:11-13 NIV I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless. (12) I will make people scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir. (13) Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the LORD Almighty, in the day of his burning anger.
Look at verse 13 above. “ I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the LORD Almighty, in the day of his burning anger.” Hardly anyone hears of the events that occur in Revelation, whether they fall under the classification of seals, plagues, or trumpets considers them a pleasant affair. I think it is safe to say that everyone perceives the events of Revelation as terror, and no one cares to distinguish between the beginning from the end, it is all calamitous with death permeating every event. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks of what is to come as anything less than punishment, the result of judgment.
I have been at this for several days now. Not only trying to give clarity, but build a reasonable argument. Yes, it takes me a while, and yes, I am basically lazy, not so willing at times to do the research necessary.
I had not been sleeping well due to a recent back injury and during one of my bouts of restless sleep God spoke to me and gave me some clarity on this subject of judgment upon the earth. I was reminded of what Jesus said, it will be as in the days of Noah. Luke recorded that Jesus spoke of Lot. Peter added some clarity by speaking of Lot as well.
Matthew 24:36-39 KJV But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. (37) But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (38) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, (39) And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Jesus warned that a time would come when people would no longer be paying attention. That means they were not expecting Jesus anymore today than yesterday, and life was just continuing to happen, because there are things to do and life to live.
When you break down the Noah scenario what are the aspects?
Noah, a righteous man in an unrighteous world, is following God’s odd command to build a massive boat. Noah, and probably his sons, take a tremendous amount of flack over this boat, partly because it takes him 100 years to build it. During this entire time people ask questions, mock him, and, if they are kind, merely walk away. Life continues, children are born, the oldest being 100 by the time the flood hits, and these have the same opportunity to walk in righteousness as Noah because Noah preached the right way to them, but did they? No way. Man only did what he wanted.
God sees all of this, for nothing escapes him, and when the time is right he brings JUDGMENT. We do not have to call it anything else, trumpets, bowls, seals, it is nothing less than destruction of godless man upon the earth.
How many righteous men were there at this time? Apparently only one, but unlike Lot’s family Noah’s came along. I do not think people pick up on the mercy of God in this story. One of Noah’s sons does something horrible to his father not long after the flood and receives a curse upon his family line for it. We really know little about the sons and their wives prior to the flood.
Clearly, because righteousness continues in some people today, the responsibility lies on Noah’s sons to pass on that heritage. The fact that the world is filled with believers is testimony to that.
The ark is complete. God gives the command to the animals to come and fill the boat. Scripture tells us that when the animals were secured that the flooding began. The earth began to open up as well as the skies, and water began rushing out from every direction. Flooding takes some time unless you live below a dam when it breaks, and then you have only seconds. As the earth began to flood God put Noah, and his family in the boat. Destruction came and God removes his righteous man from that destruction.
Warnings were given; judgment came, and God rescued those that were his before the all-encompassing destruction touched Noah.
Now consider Lot for a moment.
Lot tried bargaining with God to save at least his home and family, I am not sure what else he was bargaining for. It is possible that Lot knew the extent of the perversion, I believe he did. Scripture backs that idea up for you see an odd comment from the town folk in verse 19.
Genesis 19:9 KJV And they (the angels) said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
The men of town said that Lot needed to stop judging them.
God has the Angels pull Lot, his wife and daughters out of the town, and then destruction came. There is such an attraction to the world left behind that the wife looks back and dies, and the daughters, in short order, pull an odd stunt by having sexual intercourse with their father. What God wants us to see as the result is a righteous man, Lot.
Once again, like Noah, God has rescued his righteous from judgment, or shall we say, destruction. There is no precursor, no mid-tribulation period, no great tribulation; it is merely judgment for the rejection of God.
A little clarity and insight as to why I write. I used to hang out with a group of men at the hamburger stand. We would talk about the bible. One of the men, claimed to have been a pastor at one time, and seemed to enjoy taking a domineering role at these meetings. They had asked me to join them, and I did for many months. Although we have had some clashes, this leader and I, I think we worked through them, but I disagree with him frequently. I told the group that I write commentaries and thoughts on scripture, and post them on the internet. I was asked to share some of these with the group.
This last time was odd for a couple of reasons: The “pastor” is on a seven-year mission to make the Revelation clear and understandable (Yes, that was an allusion to Star Trek, and no it is not literally a seven-year mission, but he pursuing minute details and never gaining any ground. Therefore it will take him seven years, at least). Problem is everything he said was confusing when he would speak about it. I decided, because I too had always had a wish to understand Revelation that I would write a short synopsis of the book. I called it “A Short Course on Revelation” and posted it on the internet. I took a couple of copies to the bible study and handed it exclusively to one of the men there (this man I gave it to seems to enjoy reading them and he is extremely knowledgeable in Greek).
The “pastor” took that copy from him to glance at and kept it. The following week he handed it back to me with his arguments scribbled on it, and an addendum indicating that he really wanted to talk about this in-depth, and that he was open to understanding, and willing to change if someone could convince him he was wrong. Here is the problem with that, no one can convince him he is wrong. We have pointed things out in scriptures that are in opposition to his assertions and yet he would continue to sit there arguing by saying we are misunderstanding the passage. I cannot change anyone, only God can, and I learned long ago that you cannot argue with a closed mind.
The “pastor” also let us know that he did not spend anytime at all in the old testament, and really could see no great reason too since our lives as believers is solely based in the new testament. I find that a pathetically odd and uneducated approach, especially since this man was a chief financial officer for a corporation at one time.
To choose to ignore statements Jesus made that are clearly taken from the old testament, and not have some desire to understand their context puzzles me. I also found the old testament to be filled with people who like me, desired to understand God and still live in this tumultuous world we are stuck in. Reading the old testament gives me insight into how they did it.
The book of Revelation is deeply entrenched in the old testament and deserves our study, and a serious, in-depth study will begin to make much of it come clear, as many parts of the revelation are direct quotes from the various prophetic books.
And lastly, we seem to forget that this book we call the Bible was primarily a Jewish oriented book until Paul the Apostle came along. It has not changed in it’s heart for Israel and the Jews, nor has the prophetic scheme changed. Having an understanding that to the Jew prophecy is pattern makes the book of Revelation suddenly come alive, for God saw fit to show those patterns over and over through the prophets and in the Revelation itself.
I tried to convey that on this part of the paper the pastor seemed to be distraught over the idea that God was bringing judgment. He kept trying to come back to the exact terminology that Revelation uses as though pain cares where it inflicts you. Whether they be called seals, bowls, or trumpets is somewhat irrelevant, for they all bring death and judgment to those still on earth.
Ezekiel 7:19 KJV They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumbling block of their iniquity.
John 5:26-27 KJV For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; (27) And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Romans 2:5 KJV But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasures up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Revelation 6:17 KJV For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Jude 1:6 KJV And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Pastor, after having read these last few passages, I have concluded that in your present state, you are one of the false shepherds that scriptures speak of, for you have not pointed any towards our hope that we should have with your lack of understanding and false teachings. And even if you were honest in your efforts, your lack of understanding would have, at the least, caused those that listen to you to only see through muddied water, at which point they have learned nothing.
I exhort you to dig into God’s word; find the Son of God in all his glory awaiting you there with open arms, and run to him. Allow him free rein in your life by accepting him for who he is; he is God and he loves you with an everlasting love. He knew you, everything about you, and still he longs for your companionship. An everlasting glory and life with the Father awaits you when you come. Wait no longer, just come.
Without a comparative look at the Old Testament we might not have any understanding of what Jacob’s troubles is. A clear aspect of the passage is “that day”. I believe the reference is to “the day of the Lord.” This day plays a significant role in our understanding of Jacob’s troubles. The fact that Jacob is associated with the beginnings of Israel is a huge clue.
The passage also states that “he shall be saved out of it.” Who then is the “he” referring to since Jacob is long since passed? God seems to not be looking for a singular man, but more toward an entity or perhaps a nation; the nation Israel. Why would there be a reference to being saved out of something when Israel is experiencing an unprecedented peace now? Perhaps we are ignoring the obvious signs, given by prophecy of a time when there will be a tremendous outcry for peace.
Without an understanding of scripture how would you know that “that day” will come at a time when people are saying “peace, peace”. There is always an alternative possibility that requires some thought. What if this is a scenario where the people are crying out for peace because they need it? Think about the situation in Israel, as you read this. Iran is crying out for the absolute destruction of Israel and they are building the assets that would enable them to do something like that. Scripture tells that the damage will be great at some point with a two-thirds loss of Israel’s population, but that will not happen tomorrow. It will only happen after some ruler makes a peace treaty with Israel for a seven-year period, which he will break half way through the time period. At that time Israel will be attacked from every flank. There will be horror in the streets like you never thought possible.
John MacArthur’s commentary states: time of Jacob’s trouble. This period of unprecedented difficulty for Israel, as the verse defines, is set in a context of Israel’s final restoration. It is best equated with the time of tribulation (cf. Jer_30:8-9) just before Christ’s second advent, mentioned elsewhere (Dan_12:1; Mat_24:21-22) and described in detail (Rev. 6-19).
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which stands for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Michael, the Angel, steps up in behalf of “the children of thy people”, the Children of Israel. References to “a nation” and “thy people” are clear references to Israel.
Matthew 24:21-22 KJV For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
Again I quote from John MacArthur: great tribulation. The words “has not been” and “nor ever shall be”—along with the description that follows—identify this as the yet-future time in which God’s wrath shall be poured out on the earth (see note on Rev_7:14). Jesus’ descriptions of the cataclysms that follow closely resemble the outpouring of divine wrath described in the bowl judgments of Revelation 16 and His subsequent appearing in Revelation 19 (see note on Mat_24:30).
The entire chapter of Matthew 24 is talking about the end, but there is a context to Matthew 24 and it lies in the question that the disciples ask Jesus.
Matthew 24:3 KJV And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
The sign of his coming (one of the many references to “the day of the Lord”) is at the end of the 7 year period, and it is definitively the time when Jesus shall return physically to the earth. Realistically, if you consider all the events that scripture defines will happen, then perhaps they are all signs of his coming.
The Bible Knowledge Commentary, by John F. Walvoord and Roy B. Zuck states,
“To what “time of trouble” was Jeremiah referring? Some have felt that he was pointing to the coming fall of Judah to Babylon or to the later fall of Babylon to Medo-Persia. However, in both of these periods the Northern Kingdom of Israel was not affected. It had already gone into captivity (in 722 b.c.). A better solution is to see Jeremiah referring to the still-future Tribulation period when the remnant of Israel and Judah will experience a time of unparalleled persecution (Dan_9:27; Dan_12:1; Mat_24:15-22). The period will end when Christ appears to rescue His elect (Rom_11:26) and establish His kingdom (Mat_24:30-31; Mat_25:31-46; Rev_19:11-21; Rev_20:4-6).”
While there are some clear time frames involved, many contend that the “day of the Lord” is the entire seven-year period. Others make assertions that the great tribulation arrives at the mid point and only lasts three and one half years. If you invest some time looking into this mid-point aspect it is clear that persecution escalates from then on, making the idea that no one would survive a much more realistic scenario.
Look at this passage from the NT.
2 Thessalonians 2:2 (DRC)(The Holy Bible Translated From The Latin Vulgate) That you be not easily moved from your sense, nor be terrified, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by epistle, as sent from us, as if the day of the Lord were at hand.
The Thessalonian church was asking because it feared that the day of the Lord had come already. If they were talking about the time of destruction that so many references to “the day of Lord” refer to, then I believe the discussion might have taken a completely different turn, but Paul reassured them that for them, it had not come, therefore they could rest in the hope that they would meet him in the air, on that day; another day altogether.
In 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 KJV Paul tells the church, and us, (51) Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, (52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
If you try to make this correlate with the trumpets of Revelation then you will only provoke your confusion, for the trumpets of Revelation are part of the judgment period. Ask yourself as you increase in knowledge of end times events, how many raptures are recorded? The answer is two, and they both happen after the end of the seven-year period.
The first rapture is of those slain for their testimony during this horrible time. God calls them saints and they get to reign with him during the thousand-years. The second resurrection of the dead is at the end of the thousand-year reign. None of these should be considered to be in Christ, for if they had been they would have been caught up to be with him in the air, and that did not happen. These are the one that have died outside of a firm acceptance of God as Lord and his son Jesus Christ. They are brought before the Great White throne and judged. Although we often speak of these people as doomed to hell, if you spend some time studying this out you will find that even in this God still shows mercy to many.
Ezekiel 30:3 KJV For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.
Joel chapter 2 is one that I heard often in my pentecostal circles where prophetic speakers would come and share what God laid upon their hearts.
Joel 2:28-29 KJV And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: (29) And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
If you spend anytime reading Joel you will find it filled with encouragement, and gloom.
Joel 2:1-2 KJV Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD comes, for it is nigh at hand; (2) A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.
You have to find the distinction as to when this “day of the Lord” comes. I believe that this points to the physical manifestation of the Lord upon the earth at the end of the seven-year period. It is not going to be a pretty day, and I believe the effects of his coming will be seen globally. You cannot forget that this is a Jewish oriented book, whether you wish to accept that fact or not is irrelevant. The Jew reads something like “blow the trumpet in Zion” and there is an immediate recognition of the sound of the shofar giving out a call.
If you do as I did, and merely pursue the word judgment through the simple concordance at the back of most bibles, you will taken to Isaiah 66 as I was. God, through Isaiah contrasts the humble and contrite with the what ever the opposite is. Though what to call the opposite is not made distinct in the NIV, it is safe to presume the selfish, manipulative, and those who refuse to follow God’s commands. Webster’s dictionary describes the humble as being submissive, or penitent, in complete opposition to the selfish and manipulative.
What are God’s commands for the NT believer? Few considering we live in an age of grace and mercy. We are to believe in the Name of Jesus, and his redeeming work on the cross that brought us forgiveness for sins, but what does that mean to us? It means we have a hope; the same message that Paul brought to the Thessalonian church when they struggled over the possibility that they had missed the rapture. If your sins have been forgiven and you believe in the Son, then you have a hope for the future with Him in Heaven, just as he said.
Isaiah 66 starting at verse 3 describes those in opposition to God, how they operate, and what will happen to them.
Isaiah 66:3-4 NIV But whoever sacrifices a bull is like one who kills a person, and whoever offers a lamb is like one who breaks a dog’s neck; whoever makes a grain offering is like one who presents pig’s blood, and whoever burns memorial incense is like one who worships an idol. They have chosen their own ways, and they delight in their abominations; (4) so I also will choose harsh treatment for them and will bring on them what they dread. For when I called, no one answered, when I spoke, no one listened. They did evil in my sight and chose what displeases me.”
Why? For when I called, no one answered; When I spoke, no one listened.
Perhaps the question to ask, like some nightmarish movie, is what do you dread? Israel is about the same size as New Jersey and all of their neighbors are hostile toward them. Put yourself in their shoes, especially now, then tell me what your greatest fear would be.
Here is that word you seem to have so much trouble with, judgment.
Isaiah 66:14-16 NIV When you see this, your heart will rejoice and you will flourish like grass; the hand of the LORD will be made known to his servants, but his fury will be shown to his foes. (15) See, the LORD is coming with fire, and his chariots are like a whirlwind; he will bring down his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. (16) For with fire and with his sword the LORD will execute judgment on all people, and many will be those slain by the LORD.
Jeremiah 25:29 NIV See, I am beginning to bring disaster on the city that bears my Name, and will you indeed go unpunished? You will not go unpunished, for I am calling down a sword on all who live on the earth, declares the LORD Almighty.’
Another harsh example, but in this case he clearly deems it punishment.
Judgment, I suppose would be the sentence prescribed, punishment is the carrying out of the act. People, in a civilized world, do not get punished for no reason. God has already spelled out the sentence for us.
Jeremiah 46:10 NIV But that day belongs to the Lord, the LORD Almighty– a day of vengeance, for vengeance on his foes. The sword will devour till it is satisfied, till it has quenched its thirst with blood. For the Lord, the LORD Almighty, will offer sacrifice in the land of the north by the River Euphrates.
Ezekiel 30:2-3 NIV “Son of man, prophesy and say: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: “‘Wail and say, “Alas for that day!” (3) For the day is near, the day of the LORD is near– a day of clouds, a time of doom for the nations.
Joel 3:2 NIV I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will put them on trial for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel, because they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.
Joel’s prophecy should stand out for God states clearly that he, “will put them on trial for what they did”. That sounds like judgment to me.
Isaiah 13:6 NIV Wail, for the day of the LORD is near; it will come like destruction from the Almighty.
Isaiah 13:9 NIV See, the day of the LORD is coming –a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger– to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it.
Isaiah 13:11-13 NIV I will punish the world for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless. (12) I will make people scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir. (13) Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the LORD Almighty, in the day of his burning anger.
Look at verse 13 above. “ I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the LORD Almighty, in the day of his burning anger.” Hardly anyone hears of the events that occur in Revelation, whether they fall under the classification of seals, plagues, or trumpets considers them a pleasant affair. I think it is safe to say that everyone perceives the events of Revelation as terror, and no one cares to distinguish between the beginning from the end, it is all calamitous with death permeating every event. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks of what is to come as anything less than punishment, the result of judgment.
I have been at this for several days now. Not only trying to give clarity, but build a reasonable argument. Yes, it takes me a while, and yes, I am basically lazy, not so willing at times to do the research necessary.
I had not been sleeping well due to a recent back injury and during one of my bouts of restless sleep God spoke to me and gave me some clarity on this subject of judgment upon the earth. I was reminded of what Jesus said, it will be as in the days of Noah. Luke recorded that Jesus spoke of Lot. Peter added some clarity by speaking of Lot as well.
Matthew 24:36-39 KJV But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. (37) But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. (38) For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, (39) And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Jesus warned that a time would come when people would no longer be paying attention. That means they were not expecting Jesus anymore today than yesterday, and life was just continuing to happen, because there are things to do and life to live.
When you break down the Noah scenario what are the aspects?
Noah, a righteous man in an unrighteous world, is following God’s odd command to build a massive boat. Noah, and probably his sons, take a tremendous amount of flack over this boat, partly because it takes him 100 years to build it. During this entire time people ask questions, mock him, and, if they are kind, merely walk away. Life continues, children are born, the oldest being 100 by the time the flood hits, and these have the same opportunity to walk in righteousness as Noah because Noah preached the right way to them, but did they? No way. Man only did what he wanted.
God sees all of this, for nothing escapes him, and when the time is right he brings JUDGMENT. We do not have to call it anything else, trumpets, bowls, seals, it is nothing less than destruction of godless man upon the earth.
How many righteous men were there at this time? Apparently only one, but unlike Lot’s family Noah’s came along. I do not think people pick up on the mercy of God in this story. One of Noah’s sons does something horrible to his father not long after the flood and receives a curse upon his family line for it. We really know little about the sons and their wives prior to the flood.
Clearly, because righteousness continues in some people today, the responsibility lies on Noah’s sons to pass on that heritage. The fact that the world is filled with believers is testimony to that.
The ark is complete. God gives the command to the animals to come and fill the boat. Scripture tells us that when the animals were secured that the flooding began. The earth began to open up as well as the skies, and water began rushing out from every direction. Flooding takes some time unless you live below a dam when it breaks, and then you have only seconds. As the earth began to flood God put Noah, and his family in the boat. Destruction came and God removes his righteous man from that destruction.
Warnings were given; judgment came, and God rescued those that were his before the all-encompassing destruction touched Noah.
Now consider Lot for a moment.
Lot tried bargaining with God to save at least his home and family, I am not sure what else he was bargaining for. It is possible that Lot knew the extent of the perversion, I believe he did. Scripture backs that idea up for you see an odd comment from the town folk in verse 19.
Genesis 19:9 KJV And they (the angels) said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
The men of town said that Lot needed to stop judging them.
God has the Angels pull Lot, his wife and daughters out of the town, and then destruction came. There is such an attraction to the world left behind that the wife looks back and dies, and the daughters, in short order, pull an odd stunt by having sexual intercourse with their father. What God wants us to see as the result is a righteous man, Lot.
Once again, like Noah, God has rescued his righteous from judgment, or shall we say, destruction. There is no precursor, no mid-tribulation period, no great tribulation; it is merely judgment for the rejection of God.
A little clarity and insight as to why I write. I used to hang out with a group of men at the hamburger stand. We would talk about the bible. One of the men, claimed to have been a pastor at one time, and seemed to enjoy taking a domineering role at these meetings. They had asked me to join them, and I did for many months. Although we have had some clashes, this leader and I, I think we worked through them, but I disagree with him frequently. I told the group that I write commentaries and thoughts on scripture, and post them on the internet. I was asked to share some of these with the group.
This last time was odd for a couple of reasons: The “pastor” is on a seven-year mission to make the Revelation clear and understandable (Yes, that was an allusion to Star Trek, and no it is not literally a seven-year mission, but he pursuing minute details and never gaining any ground. Therefore it will take him seven years, at least). Problem is everything he said was confusing when he would speak about it. I decided, because I too had always had a wish to understand Revelation that I would write a short synopsis of the book. I called it “A Short Course on Revelation” and posted it on the internet. I took a couple of copies to the bible study and handed it exclusively to one of the men there (this man I gave it to seems to enjoy reading them and he is extremely knowledgeable in Greek).
The “pastor” took that copy from him to glance at and kept it. The following week he handed it back to me with his arguments scribbled on it, and an addendum indicating that he really wanted to talk about this in-depth, and that he was open to understanding, and willing to change if someone could convince him he was wrong. Here is the problem with that, no one can convince him he is wrong. We have pointed things out in scriptures that are in opposition to his assertions and yet he would continue to sit there arguing by saying we are misunderstanding the passage. I cannot change anyone, only God can, and I learned long ago that you cannot argue with a closed mind.
The “pastor” also let us know that he did not spend anytime at all in the old testament, and really could see no great reason too since our lives as believers is solely based in the new testament. I find that a pathetically odd and uneducated approach, especially since this man was a chief financial officer for a corporation at one time.
To choose to ignore statements Jesus made that are clearly taken from the old testament, and not have some desire to understand their context puzzles me. I also found the old testament to be filled with people who like me, desired to understand God and still live in this tumultuous world we are stuck in. Reading the old testament gives me insight into how they did it.
The book of Revelation is deeply entrenched in the old testament and deserves our study, and a serious, in-depth study will begin to make much of it come clear, as many parts of the revelation are direct quotes from the various prophetic books.
And lastly, we seem to forget that this book we call the Bible was primarily a Jewish oriented book until Paul the Apostle came along. It has not changed in it’s heart for Israel and the Jews, nor has the prophetic scheme changed. Having an understanding that to the Jew prophecy is pattern makes the book of Revelation suddenly come alive, for God saw fit to show those patterns over and over through the prophets and in the Revelation itself.
I tried to convey that on this part of the paper the pastor seemed to be distraught over the idea that God was bringing judgment. He kept trying to come back to the exact terminology that Revelation uses as though pain cares where it inflicts you. Whether they be called seals, bowls, or trumpets is somewhat irrelevant, for they all bring death and judgment to those still on earth.
Ezekiel 7:19 KJV They shall cast their silver in the streets, and their gold shall be removed: their silver and their gold shall not be able to deliver them in the day of the wrath of the LORD: they shall not satisfy their souls, neither fill their bowels: because it is the stumbling block of their iniquity.
John 5:26-27 KJV For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; (27) And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
Romans 2:5 KJV But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasures up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Revelation 6:17 KJV For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Jude 1:6 KJV And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Pastor, after having read these last few passages, I have concluded that in your present state, you are one of the false shepherds that scriptures speak of, for you have not pointed any towards our hope that we should have with your lack of understanding and false teachings. And even if you were honest in your efforts, your lack of understanding would have, at the least, caused those that listen to you to only see through muddied water, at which point they have learned nothing.
I exhort you to dig into God’s word; find the Son of God in all his glory awaiting you there with open arms, and run to him. Allow him free rein in your life by accepting him for who he is; he is God and he loves you with an everlasting love. He knew you, everything about you, and still he longs for your companionship. An everlasting glory and life with the Father awaits you when you come. Wait no longer, just come.
The July 2012 newsletter, “The Bible Says” calls itself ‘the bible answer to your questions’.
Obviously not every question, like “Daddy, where did we dinosaurs come from?” Because this is one of those things that the bible is rather silent about. I strongly suspect the answer is there, but it probably requires thinking outside the box, and that causes great grief to fundamentalists.
Someone had written in asking, “Will the Antichrist be the 12th Imam (Mahdi) that Shia Muslims, particularly the Iranian leadership, are expecting?”
The answers are a compilation from the World Prophetic Ministry research department, and writings from the late Doctors: Howard C. Estep, Dave Breese, Ed Hinson, and “others.”
I am familiar with these names and have read this newsletter for several years now. I made the assumption that their information was good all the time. I was wrong.
The answer to the question asked was a decisive one, “Absolutely not!” They continue: “The bible indicates the Antichrist will come from a revived Roman Empire, meaning that he will come from an area of the old Roman empire. (Daniel 9:26,27)”
If you know my writings at all, then you know I am not going to respond well to an answer like that. I find it domineering, un-insightful, and narrow-minded. So as usual I am going to tear it up.
They base their immediate response on Daniel 9:26,27, so let’s go there.
Daniel 9:26-27 KJV And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. (27) And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Traditional teachings would have us believe that Caesar, the Roman General, ordered the destruction of the temple in 70 AD. When in fact Josephus, the Jewish historian, recorded this scenario in opposition to tradition. Keep in mind that history is almost always a one-sided recollection, and generally portrays the victor in the kindest light. Josephus had no motivation to make Titus look good. So where did we come up with these “traditions”?
Josephus records that an unnamed young man rush to Titus to alert him that the troops were involved with the destruction of the temple and that they had started a fire. Titus, dressed as he was, ran toward the temple, waving one arm, and seeing that this was a salvageable situation ordered the men to put the fire out, for he knew that this would bring no good.
From Josephus writings: The Wars of the Jews.
Book 6, Chapter 4. “And now a certain person came running to Titus, and told him of this fire, as he was resting himself in his tent after the last battle; whereupon he rose up in great haste, and, as he was, ran to the holy house, in order to have a stop put to the fire; after him followed all his commanders, and after them followed the several legions, in great astonishment; so there was a great clamor and tumult raised, as was natural upon the disorderly motion of so great an army. Then did Caesar, both by calling to the soldiers that were fighting, with a loud voice, and by giving a signal to them with his right hand, order them to quench the fire. But they did not hear what he said, though he spake so loud, having their ears already dimmed by a greater noise another way; nor did they attend to the signal he made with his hand neither, as still some of them were distracted with fighting, and others with passion. But as for the legions that came running thither, neither any persuasions nor any threatenings could restrain their violence, but each one’s own passion was his commander at this time; and as they were crowding into the temple together, many of them were trampled on by one another, while a great number fell among the ruins of the cloisters, which were still hot and smoking, and were destroyed in the same miserable way with those whom they had conquered; and when they were come near the holy house, they made as if they did not so much as hear Caesar’s orders to the contrary; but they encouraged those that were before them to set it on fire.”
I have been told that Josephus tells us that by 69AD the conscript troops, taken from surrounding areas, outnumbered the Italians by a 5:1 ratio. These troops according to Josephus were Syrians and Arabians, and demonstrated their hatred of the Jews at every opportunity. The number of Assyrians within the ranks, wearing Roman uniforms, by the time of the temples destruction could have been as high as 60000. Josephus tells us that these troops quickly weighed their punishment for disobedience against their hatred of the Jews and ignored the orders coming from Titus, throwing more fuel on the fire. If we are going to use Daniel to back up our claim of a revised Roman Empire then we really should consider history. Yes, the temple was destroyed, but who destroyed it? Caesar? While not exactly a benevolent ruler by any stretch, it was Assyrians. Instead of merely accepting what tradition has taught us, we need to consider what historical record makes clear. I have yet to find that wording of such an exact nature, but Josephus did make it clear that there were three legions involved in the siege, and another source indicated four legions. Estimates on the number of troops are as high as 80,000.
Keep in mind that the portion of passage the prophecy teachers anchor upon is “the people of the prince that shall come”. While clearly an aspect of what Daniel saw appears to have been fulfilled; but if you have an understanding of end times events to any degree then you should also realize that this is still a future event.
One of the things I have learned is that to the Jewish mind prophecy is pattern, and God spent a tremendous amount of time speaking to a Jewish audience; we just happen to be privileged to be included in that.
Ascribing all these characteristics to Europe does not fit, it never has, and this false assumption has kept the majority of the church in confusion for two thousand plus years. Not to mention that we have not been taught to pray for the correct things, the persecuted church, and restraints against the antichrist and his followers.
A secondary problem I have with the response the authors of the newsletter gave, is that they are all dead. Those that write as staff may be very intelligent, but if they are merely emulating previous leadership then what does that accomplish. We have entire nations that do that; Cuba for example.
If the leadership is good and the information being propagated is sound, then the recipients will be sound, but all you have to do is look around you and you know that is not the case. The church is no more vibrant than it was before; oh sure, there are a handful of people who are consciously trying to maintain the oil in their lamps but the majority do not want to hear that the Lord’s return in imminent.
How, or why would you wish to come off with such an incorrect and closed-minded answer – Note the way they responded to a legitimate question: “Absolutely Not!” Perhaps that is exactly what many of these dead guys would have said, especially if they are going to cling to Daniel 9:26, 27 as the end all to the question. Again, if the those that have passed on left us with good information then let’s continue to use it as our foundation. But if is not right or based in some incorrect logic and a potential lack of understanding then NO!
No one had ever pointed out to me that Josephus had recorded such information about the temple being destroyed by Assyrians within the ranks of the Roman troops. To ignore such information demonstrates an insincerity in proclaiming the truth, and leads to cultish practices in which the followers are kept in the dark trusting in this man alone as the one to regurgitate the necessary information that they think I need.
God gave us brains and logical thought so that we can look around the corner and make sure that there is nothing hidden on the other side of the fence. We are not looking some new and great revelation, I believe that the information is all there, but things in the world have changed so rapidly that we cannot ignore them. When I was a child we did not crawl under desks because of earthquake preparedness, we did drills in case of nuclear war. Why? Because Cuba, 90 miles off our shoreline had nuclear missiles supplied by Russia. Russia and East Germany were scary monsters but then two things happened that seem to change everything. In the late 1970’s Russia seemed to disintegrate, and the Iranian revolution came about. While the tearing down of the Berlin wall was monumental, especially as then President Reagan said, “Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!” No one seemed to notice or understand what the significance of the Iranian revolution meant. For Iran, and all that eventually followed, it was a return to the effectively dead Caliphate. Mullah’s that lived in secrecy outside of their countries returned as the doors reopened, and in Iran they voted in the Ayatollah Khomeni as the president, or at least ruling authority over it. Those that cleared out of there during those years will tell you how horrible the transition was. Burkhas were not required under the Shah’s rule. Yes it’s true, the Shah was a tyrant in his own right, but he did not force the people to live under sharia law.
Look at another piece of significant information that few of us knew about or understood its significance. The Muslim brotherhood was founded in Egypt in 1928. Why is this significant? Because by treaty the Ottoman caliphate, based in Turkey, was disbanded and outlawed in 1924. The Muslim Brotherhood was instituted to circumvent that. Allow me to give you an overview from Wikipedia.
The Society of the Muslim Brothers (Arabic: جماعة الإخوان المسلمون, often simply: الإخوان المسلمون, “the Muslim Brotherhood”, transliterated: al-ʾiḫwān al-muslimūn) is the Arab world’s most influential[1] and one of the largest Islamic movements,[2] and is the largest political opposition organization in many Arab states.[which?] Founded in Egypt in 1928 as a Pan-Islamic, religious, political, and social movement by the Islamic scholar and schoolteacher Hassan al-Banna,[3][4][5][6] by the end of World War II the MB had an estimated two million members.[7] Its ideas had gained supporters throughout the Arab world and influenced other Islamist groups with its “model of political activism combined with Islamic charity work”.[8] Its most famous slogan, used worldwide, is “Islam is the solution.”[8]
The Brotherhood’s stated goal is to instill the Qur’an and Sunnah as the “sole reference point for…ordering the life of the Muslim family, individual, community… and state” The movement officially opposes violent means to achieve its goals, although it at one time encompassed a paramilitary wing and its members were involved in massacres, bombings and assassinations of political opponents; notably Egyptian Prime Minister Mahmoud an-Nukrashi Pasha and the movement’s own founder Hassan al-Banna.[8][9] The movement has been criticized by al-Qaeda for its support for democratic elections rather than armed jihad.[citation needed] The Hamas Party Charter, which describes Hamas as an arm of the Muslim Brotherhood, ordains that jihad is the individual obligation of every Muslim, that a “peaceful solution” to the “problem” of non-Muslims living in Israel is “inconsistent with the beliefs of the movement”, that infidel (non-Muslim) laws and treaties in Israel are void, and that all Jews and Christians must acknowledge complete Muslim sovereignty over Israel. The charter also states that Zionism is the cause of alcoholism and drug abuse.
The Muslim Brotherhood started as a religious social organization; preaching Islam, teaching the illiterate, setting up hospitals and even launching commercial enterprises. As it continued to rise in influence, starting in 1936, it began to oppose British rule in Egypt.[10] Many Egyptian nationalists accuse the MB of violent killings during this period.[11] After the Arab defeat in the First Arab-Israeli war, the Egyptian government dissolved the organization and arrested its members.[10] It supported the Egyptian Revolution of 1952, but after an attempted assassination of Egypt’s president it was once again banned and repressed.[12] The MB has been suppressed in other countries as well, most notably in Syria in 1982 during the Hama massacre.[13]
The MB is financed by contributions from its members, who are required to allocate a portion of their income to the movement. Some of these contributions are from members who work in Saudi Arabia and other oil-rich countries.[14]
Many will read this and think, that doesn’t sound so bad, besides, they have been disbanded several times over. If you think like this then it proves that you live in a hole, or under a rock. Are you not aware that the Muslim Brotherhood just got themselves elected to leadership over Egypt, and that they moved in quickly to fill the void left in Libya after the ouster/death of Muammar Gaddafi.
The brotherhood requires the teaching of the Qur’an, a book filled with hatred and death to all outside of the “religion.” It demands a part of one’s income to finance all actions they take. Though they advocate non-violence on paper, violent Jihad is absolutely a part of who they are, and Taqiya is a way of life and the greatest form of Jihad.
With the obvious changes going on around us, how does one choose to ignore the apparent clarity. You have to choose to not pay attention to details, and choose a level of arrogance that refuses to look outside of your convenient and traditional teaching.
God meant for these things to be understood. The end times are no longer a great mystery. Jesus is Lord and his return is imminent. I urge you find your life in him, for he is hope and salvation, and there is no salvation through any other. Give your life over him and ask him to make himself real to you, and he will.
Read: Acts 6:8 – 7:60
False accusations have been brought against Stephen and he had been dragged before the high council of the Jews.
While most would react in anger, screaming out in their own defense, not Stephen. As the Jewish council glared at him they saw the face of an angel.
When they demanded that he respond he gives them a very precise history that shows God’s hand in the salvation, sins, birth, and bondage of a nation.
Two things caught my attention.
Acts 7:38 .. our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give to us: ….
The phrase lively oracles in Greek is: logia zonta, meaning: living doctrines that give life upon obedience to them. Here, the term applies to Moses’ law.
Logia zonta, used in Romans 3:2 refers to the Old Testament in general. In Hebrews 5:12 and 1Peter 4:11 it encompasses all of scripture.
Conceptually: The idea of living doctrines conveys: teaching or instructions that are alive.
We perceive the word alive as something that breathes, moves, has some variable aspect, like tree growth.
A tree might be an outstanding example in that it, from a simple start, develops into a foundational plant with miniscule characteristics of what it’s potential can be.
Does the tree change as it matures? Not in it’s designed characteristics. Initially it could look no different from any other tree until it leafs out. The changes that we can see are in growth enlargements as it gets taller, wider, stronger, and with maturity, if that is it’s purpose, produce fruit.
Most trees go through seasons during which they leaf out, produce fruit, drop their leaves, and go dormant for a time, until it is time to repeat that cycle again. In Horticulture, an oddity might be the Sasanqua Camellia for during the dormant season, a time of presumed bleakness, is when it produces it’s spectacular floral displays. Consider that aspect when you compare this to our lives in Christ.![]()
If we have grown and allowed God and time to mature us, then when a time of dormancy occurs all the internal work involved may now be producing some fruit or foliage in the life of someone who is out of our view.
Acts 7:42
Still looking at Stephen’s recap of Israel’s history. Moses comes off the mountain and finds most of Israel worshiping a gold calf they created. If only it were that simple.
Stephen gets rather specific about the identities of these gods: Molech, and Rephan. Stephen quotes from the law, to the Jewish council which returns to him no argument, “you have lifted up the shrine of Molech and the star of your god Rephan, the idols you made to worship.”
Dr. Chuck Misler has referred to Stephen’s discourse, as one of the most astounding passages in scripture, for it gives us an insight into Israel’s history that we do not find anywhere else.
Stephen gets rather specific with the identities of these gods that Israel was dancing around. Molech and Rephan. Stephen quotes saying, “you have lifted up the shrine of Molech and the star of your god Rephah, the idols you made to worship.”
Molech was especially detestable, for its worshipers would sacrifice their children to it.
Do not in any way sanitize this scenario for it is pure horror. When you contrast the sacrificing of children with Jesus actions toward children, you can begin to picture why God so despises this idolatry.
Although the impact is not immediately seen their actions got them sent into exile in Babylon. A key to God’s response is found in Acts 7:42, “but God turned away and gave them over to the worship of the heavenly bodies.”
I find it interesting that Stephen does not mention that God brought an immediate judgment, for the earth opened to swallow multitudes as they danced around their idols.
Israel’s only salvation at this point was Moses interceding for them.
For God to turn away does not imply an overlooking of bad behavior. The implication would seem to be rejection, as though he had looked face to face. Think about this for a moment; this is the early stages of their wanderings. Was there ever a time that God left them and walked away? NO. The passage then, requires some thought.
Another aspect to look at is this turning them over to, what? – The worship of the heavenly bodies.
(AMP)But God turned [away from them] and delivered them up to worship and serve the host (stars) of heaven, as it is written in the book of the prophets: Did you [really] offer to Me slain beasts and sacrifices for forty years in the wilderness (desert), O house of Israel? [Jer. 19:13.]
Worship – the rendering of religious homage.
Host – the celestial luminaries.
Heaven – the sky and stars.
They were already worshiping Molech and Rephan!
Molech – Look this up in Leviticus 18:21; 20:2; 2Kings 23:10; Jeremiah 32:35
Leviticus 18:21 KJV And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
2 Kings 23:10 KJV And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech.
Jeremiah 32:35 KJV And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
God turning them over to worship the heavenly bodies does not sound all that bad when you first hear it. Again, there has to be something more.
Contrast this Paul turning a brother over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh so that his soul could be saved, but that does not seem to be the case here. These are not “saved souls” like those who are covered by the blanket of Christ’s blood. These people are subject to the law of God, a rigid following of God’s guidelines. Based upon what we know they did as they danced around the god Molech, and what they continued to do, in offering their children as sacrifices to some pagan god. No wonder God placed them under such strict guidelines.
Read the story about how Paul dealt with church discipline, in the New Testament, from
1 Corinthians, Chapter 5.
I want so badly to have a solid scriptural backing for the next assertion.
God did not turn his back on us! I know this is true because, “while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.” I want so much to say with confidence that God will not turn his back on us, in this age.
Romans 5:8 KJV But God commends his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Some would say, God cannot look upon sin, and this may well be what we saw on the cross when Jesus cried out that the father had abandoned him. To place that attribute upon us is wrong because Christ’s blood paid the price for all sin, once, for all. Though we all continue to sin God will not judge the world for sin, but for refusing to accept the price paid for our sin, effectively demonstrating our non-acceptance of God as the Father.
If we use this experience Stephen describes to validate God’s turning his back on us, then we are not paying attention.
Stephen said in Acts 7:38 that God gave them logia zonta, living doctrines that produce life upon obedience. Now just a minute, didn’t we talk about the restrictive laws that Israel had to follow to obtain righteousness?
See what I mean about not paying attention. If we do not investigate God’s word for ourselves then we are subject to the fallacies that false teachers feed. God gave them living principles, that when followed produced life in them. Because they were living, we can extrapolate that this was the life of God in them. (Try to imagine where this might take you.)
Israel chose to:
Disregard
Disobey
Build an image of Molech and offer worship to it.
(Molech, from historical record, had the head of a cow and the body of a man. With arms outstretched and a hollow body they would heat this atrocity up and lay their children in its arms. A “priest” would blow a trumpet loudly to drown out the sounds of the screaming children, as the onlookers danced wildly around the statue and others partook of sexual acts as part of the festivities. This is what Moses hears and sees as he comes off the mountain that day. He did not merely dash the tablets to the ground, he threw them at their heads.)
So God has reacted to their blatant and horrific disobedience.What would it take to get your attention and get you to stop some self-destructive behavior?
As I got into the car to go to lunch one day, a radio pastor says, “God will occasionally lead you on a destructive path.”
If we use Christ as our pattern for who God is, then we come to know that Christ is the good shepherd.
A shepherd in our commercial world is interested in making money, and leading his sheep on a destructive path is counterproductive. The only way I can see that happening on purpose is to get us quickly to safety on greener pasture, and I can guarantee that suffering loss is not what the shepherd desires. Nothing about this picture coincides with the kind of imagery that Stephen’s dissertation portrays. Israel, and them alone, put themselves on this destructive path.
If the shepherd turns his back on the sheep intentionally, he subjects them to their own stupidity and whatever hazards may lie in their path, potentially death. And for what purpose? This certainly does not qualify you as a good shepherd, which Christ is.
A former pastor told us that it was traditional for a shepherd to break the leg of a sheep that would continuously stray. And that was supposed to be my image of God? I believe it was his image of God, for this pastor had very little understanding of human nature, nor compassion upon people. Try presenting this aspect the pastor presents as a selling point for the Christian life.
I have spent a tremendous amount of time pursuing an understanding of end times events, and one of the things that most people associate with end times is God’s wrath and vengeance upon earth. What I have come to understand is that though wrath is clearly an aspect, it is also a time of mercy, as God continues to await and welcome all who will come to him. He is a God of mercy, but you will never know that without pursuing him, and coming to him. Ask Jesus Christ to make himself real to you and he will. If you will let him, he will come into your life and give you a hope of life with him, and hope is something that very few of you have. Come to him.
On Monday of this week I got off early from work and went to the market. I was on the hunt for apples, particularly the ones that come in a bag, but this market seems to think that is beneath them. Whatever! Within a few seconds a lady wearing an apron comes around the corner and so I asked her if she knew anything about apples in a bag. Nope, but hey, stick around, we giving away a free paring knife in about five minutes, and she gave me a ticket to claim my free knife. You know I stuck around, besides I had just started my minimal shopping adventure. The knife demonstration began. Although they are impressive, and the paring knife is part of the package, I no longer wished to wait here anymore.
Now this is where the voice of the Lord part comes in. As I decided I no longer wanted to play this knife game anymore I hear this thought; take the aisle behind you, you can slip away quicker and fewer people will notice you leaving. I heard this twice, but since I am trying to learn to be less concerned with what people think about me I opted to merely make a quick left and walk away in front of everyone.
I made it about 10 feet when I hit a puddle of water that I did not see, slipped and slammed down upon my left knee. I ended up laying that puddle of water and probably had everyone looking at me.
Is there a point to this, oh absolutely. Listen to the voice, even if you think it your own. Tuck the foolish pride away in your back pocket, because you do not know what God/the Holy Spirit is trying to spare you from. BTW: That fall hurt a lot, but nothing is broken, I think.
When I was a wee bit younger, I chose to practice hearing God’s voice. As I left church one night (I lived in a semi-rural area with a lot of orange groves around) I felt strongly that I was go over to this lady’s house (I was trying to gain her attention and she was pretty). I argued with the voice/God about how stupid I felt about this idea but chose to go anyway. I had heard him say to me, “she will be there when you get there”. I was fighting with God about this and not paying attention to the road. Suddenly I realized I was about to shoot past it, slammed on my brakes, and spun the car into the long drive way. She was right behind me and pulled immediately next to my car. I told you I was not paying attention. I apologized for scaring her and told her what God had just said to me.
While the conversation was less than productive, I think the point was God was trying to teach me something. I could not tell you that most of this sounded like much more than thoughts in my head, so you have to learn to make the distinction. I think that as you practice trusting him and responding to the sane voices you too will learn to do the right thing; I wish I had that day in the market.
Consider that there is a day coming soon in which a trumpet blast will call us away. I am practicing so that I can hear that call. I have every confidence that I will. I will let you in on a little secret; it sounds like a shofar. I so desire for you all to join me as I meet the one I have longed for, in the air. Turn your life over to the one who gave his life, for your life. That is essentially the ticket, and his name is Jesus Christ.
Have a blessed day
Oz
I stated in my post:
“The first three chapters cover Jesus addressing the churches.
These places were real, but also symbolic of the church today. Words of encouragement and warning were given to all but one. The Laodicean church, the last church, was destroyed because they did not respond to the warnings that were conveyed through John’s pen.
What does that mean to us today? Take heed, God is not joking.
Sadly I think the candle has been blown out.
A prophetic word: We are the Laodicean church.
You responded with:
“Laodicea means, ‘the rule of the people’, or ‘user friendly’…. *where is Christ Jesus?
(Rev 3:20) Outside, at the door and knocks!
In retrospect I wish I had not included the statement that the Laodicean church was destroyed. I honestly think I confused it with another church which commentators had clearly said was leveled. I despise speakers that make statements they cannot back up, and as yet, I cannot clearly back this up. Is it untrue what I said. I think not, but it’s spiritual ties to the modern-day church, and the way they act, should be a good indicator of where the church is headed; destruction.
Initially God lays out a proclamation to a church that was in existence. Physically that church is gone. Would there be a remnant to proclaim the hope and life of Christ to us if they had repented? We do not know. What we do know is that the churches were also spiritual analogies, not so different from the descriptions of the beast. They are clearly significant, and if we can allow for that, then the concept of Jesus standing outside the door and knocking is still relevant also.
Allow me to look at what you said:
“Laodicea means, ‘the rule of the people’.”
That statement, as a stand alone can go two ways. In the legal system it implies a consensus of your peers and not a dictatorial rule. We are told to only consider a thing if there are at least two witnesses, and then the issue is brought before the rule of the people, and the people who make that ruling are to execute the judgment. Bloodshed is such a gruesome act and only the heartless would be inclined to show no mercy. There is a point to this, and it is that God needed us to realize that it is his mercy that takes precedent over all other decisions.
The alternative take on this statement might imply that regardless of what God says we think we know better. This is how I understand this statement, and all you have to do is look around you; what do you see and hear, we think we know better.
‘where is Christ Jesus? (Rev 3:20) Outside, at the door and knocks!
A couple of things strike me about this.
First: To throw an exclamation point at the end demonstrates how closed you are to understanding. Regardless of your statements to me about desiring to understand, your attitude says completely different. To me, you might as well have slapped me in the face like an angry father, as he yells, your opinion does not matter.
Second: You referenced Revelation 3:20. So let’s ponder that a moment.
Revelation 3:20 NIV Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
There is a context and it needs to be considered. You made this reference because of two things: I used the word destroyed, and I stated that I think the candle has been blown out.
To be honest; I do not know where John MacArthur got his information indicating that the Laodicean church was destroyed by an earthquake. History has done a decent job of recording to much of things like this. Does an earthquake imply God’s judgment against a people? Maybe, but then where is the mercy. God has always been fairly straight forward by laying out an incredible plan to man, and then stating that regardless of what you do I will carry out my end of this. If destruction is included for not following the rules, then destruction must come. To do otherwise would make God a liar and that does not work.
Revelation 3:20 ESV Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.
In terms of context.
1. He is talking to the church. We can make a huge assumption and call it a believing body. But if what MacArthur says is true then we cannot be sure what they believed. Jesus is God. That has been a difficult thing to wrap my head around at times, especially when the focus is upon the virgin birth. God became man, and Jesus is his name, and yet Jesus always was, beside the Father, creating with his words, and so has the Holy Spirit. The Laodicean church apparently did not believe this, and it impacted everything they thought about God. If they were so twisted why did God pour out his life and love upon them? It only demonstrates his mercy.
2. This passage is one that is used in trying to harvest the lost. An odd way of putting it when Jesus paid for all us when he bought us out of bondage. If a person is caught in bondage then it can only by their own choice to respond to the enticements of deception. Revelation 3:19 states: Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. If he is talking to the church that he gave his life for, then he is talking to family that he desires to come in line. Therefore his standing outside the door is an act of respect for the free will of the family members, and the want to receive them back in when they repent. Jesus said it, “I reprove and discipline,” so there has to be something that happens if they do not.
According to the Bible Knowledge Commentary:
“The wealthy city of Laodicea was located on the road to Colosse about 40 miles southeast of Philadelphia. About 35 years before this letter was written, Laodicea was destroyed by an earthquake, but it had the wealth and ability to rebuild. Its main industry was wool cloth. There is no record that Paul ever visited this city, but he was concerned about it (Col_2:1-2; Col_4:16).”
John MacArthur states,
“Although these seven churches were actual, historical churches in Asia Minor, they represent the types of churches that perennially exist throughout the church age. What Christ says to these churches is relevant in all times.”
In your challenge you mentioned that the Laodicean church meant, “the rule of the people.”
The mere selfishness of that statement alone could be a primary reason for judgment against them MacArthur expounds upon something more.
“Beginning of the creation. This corrects a heresy, apparently present in Laodicea as in Colosse, that Christ was a created being (cf. Col_1:15-20). Instead, He is the “Beginning” (lit. “beginner, originator, initiator”) of creation (cf. Joh_1:3; Joh_3:14) and the “firstborn of creation”; that is, the most preeminent, supreme person ever born (Col_1:15). As a man, He had a beginning, but as God, He was the beginning. Sadly, this heresy concerning the person of Christ had produced an unregenerate church in Laodicea.”
I am not a big fan of John MacArthur and here is why. As I sat in a home-group/bible study, I was accosted weekly by a very adamant lady who apparently worshiped Pastor John. She would not say, but the bible says, it was always, “John MacArthur says!” I was already aware of the Pastor from radio, and I was aware of what he teaches especially on the topic of the Holy Spirit. I strongly disagree with him, but I am an advocate of intelligence, and Pastor John does give us that.
In the quotation above there is a very disheartening statement, and if this what these people believed then it makes all the more sense. The idea that Christ was a created being is the epitome of blasphemy in my mind. Jesus berated the Pharisees because they attributed his works to the devil. To say that Jesus is a created being is to deny that God’s attributions in his son are not true either.
Even worse, when you consider that this is representative of this present church age, we are in trouble. Jonathon Cahn, in his book The Harbinger, declares this very thing. Although Jonathon Cahn holds out the hope that God will withdraw his hand against this nation I do not see that happening. I do not see “believers” responding to this plea to be a watchman upon the wall and blow the trumpet. Any that heard my trumpet blowing have treated me with scorn. I am sure that the common attitude is God has been coming for the last two thousand plus years, don’t go getting so excited, beside that your scaring me.
The paper, A Short Course on the Book of Revelation, was intentionally brief, and no where close to being a scholarly dissertation. I am just a lay person, like many of you, but I am of the belief that Revelation does not have to be that difficult, especially when you break it down into segments.
The segments consist of:
Identification and understanding of who the book is about – Jesus, the Jews, the nations, and the saints.
The church age.
The time of wrath.
The thousand years of peace under the reign of Jesus and the resurrected saints.
The grand finale where after Satan is released for a brief time he deceives the nations, again, they rise up in war against God and his people, God destroys them and throws Satan permanently into the lake of fire. All the non-believing dead will be raised for judgment, and surprisingly many are shown mercy.
I printed The Short Course on the Book of Revelation and took it to the bible study group I meet with. One man in particular shows an interest in such things and so I handed it to him. The “leader” of the group began to look at it, he is attempting to create a long, detailed, explanatory thesis on Revelation, and so the man I gave that copy to immediately lost his copy. I had a backup and gave it to the man. This next time I saw the leader he had critiqued it.
I do not agree with his beliefs on end times events and their timing, but he claims he is interested in learning. One of the things that might make his learning a little skewed would be his lack of interest in reading the old testament. I find Jesus the Messiah in every book. You must understand that this bible of ours is a very Jewish book, and that the old testament is the foundation of almost everything in the new testament, especially the Revelation. The books of Daniel, Ezekiel, as well as others not only painted the picture that we see in the Revelation, but the terminology was repeated with precision, and in many cases much more defined by several of the prophets of the old testament.
In his critique the leader disagreed with several points, one of which he kept going back to the same theme over and over. As I do not crank these papers out in an evening, I will attempt to answer his questions and perhaps yours over the next few weeks.
Issue:
“The rise of Islam. Technically we are dealing with a resurrected Ottoman empire.
This word resurrected takes on a whole new meaning when applied to the ‘beast’ whose head was wounded. (Check this out at your leisure in Revelation 13); “
Response:
This is an attempt at responding to the first of your challenges.
As I included my original statement above, it should be easy to recognize that I used terminology that allows for logical thought instead of merely stating, “this is what John was saying here.”, for I stated, “This word resurrected takes on a whole new meaning when applied to the beast“. The reader is welcome to assimilate this information in any manner they wish.
I referenced Revelation 13, but this particular challenge, and I quote, “*beast – “rising up” #1, “coming out of” #2 not resurrected….” initially made no sense to me. Apparently you were referring to verse 1 of chapter 13. The problem with this is that the passages here are chronological and you have jumped backward in time.
I do not have an issue with the terminology “rising up” as used in verse 1 for it can also be stated proceeds from. Verse one of chapter 13 is in a sense the birth of the beast, but even that is not a correct assumption for that which empowers it is a spirit and has shown it’s ugly head through several representatives throughout the ages.
1 John 2:18 KJV Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
Seeing as the term antichristos denotes anyone that is against, opposes, or is instead of Christ, therefore we can include those who assume the guise of Christ.
He, the beast, is not coming out of a body of water like some sea serpent, he merely comes out of the masses of people upon the earth. And yet we can learn with reasonable certainty where he comes from, and it is NOT Rome.
Resurrection – is from the Greek word anastasis and means: a standingup again, that is, (literally) a resurrection from death (individual, general or by implication (its author)),Strong’s concordance
We are rather free in the usage of this type of terminology for we even apply it to baseball teams, when after multiple strings of losses they begin to win with vigor.
I would like to point out that we are not necessarily looking for a man here, although that is possible, but when you apply the concept of resurrection to a religious ideology that was shut down by world domination and has seemingly made such an overwhelming come back, then it makes more sense.
A brief historical look at the Ottoman Empire
With Constantinople as its capital and vast control of lands around the Mediterranean basin, the Ottoman empire was at the center of interactions between the Eastern and Western worlds for over six centuries.
After the international recognition of the new Turkish parliament (Grand National Assembly of Turkey) headquartered in Ankara, by means of the Treaty of Lausanne signed on 24 July 1923, the Turkish parliament proclaimed on 29 October 1923 the establishment of the Republic of Turkey as the new Turkish State that succeeded and formally ended the defunct Ottoman Empire, in line with the treaty. The Ottoman Caliphate was abolished on 3 March 1924;the Caliphate’s authority and properties were transferred to the Grand National Assembly of Turkey.
The term caliphate, “dominion of a caliph (‘successor’)” (from the Arabic خلافة or khilāfa, Turkish: Hilafet), refers to the first system of government established in Islam and represented the leader’s unity of the Muslim Ummah (community)” Wikipedia
To my understanding the Caliph, operated strictly under Sharia law, is a Totalitarian state. Non-compliance is not tolerated except under the laws of Dhimini, which demand that the non-believer pay extortion money to exist there, and it does not exclude you from further demands, torture or death.
It is no coincidence that the Ottoman empire covered much of the same territories as the rulers in Nebuchadnezzar’s statue (Daniel 2:29-35), and the 4 beasts that Daniel saw. (Daniel 7:7-8; cf. Revelation 13:3; 17:3, 17:7. In Revelation 13:1-18 and Revelation 17:1-18 the beast is the world ruler, whereas in Daniel n7:1-28 the little horn on the beast was the world ruler. Bible Knowledge Commentary)
The feet of Nebuchadnezzar’s statue, the last beast, the leopard with bear paws, and a lion’s mouth are all one in the same. These are the beast described in Revelation 13.
13:2 This Antichrist seems like a combination of the four beasts that Daniel had seen centuries earlier in a vision (Dan_7:4-8), combining the characteristics of a leopard, a bear, and a lion. In Daniel’s vision, the lion with eagle’s wings represented Babylon with her swift conquests (statues of winged lions have been recovered from Babylon’s ruins).. Life Application New Testament Commentary
Take it upon yourself to compare maps. Look at the territories that Alexander’s empire covered, then look at the Roman empire. The Ottoman empire was the last in this region and covered much, if not more of the same regions. This is where your beast will come from.
Let’s look at the passage that I started with.
Revelation 13:2-8 NIV The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. (3) One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast. (4) People worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can wage war against it?” (5) The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months. (6) It opened its mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. (7) It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. (8) All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast–all whose names have not been written in the Lamb’s book of life, the Lamb who was slain from the creation of the world.
If I, like the Apostle John, use the terminology “seemed” you have to assume that I am relating how the scene appeared me. Why would I say fatal unless it appeared that it was dead? One does not bring someone or something back from the dead without people noticing, therefore the world was filled with wonder, but this is what makes the Revelation such a mystery. Either we have looked for the wrong thing, or we have been duped into looking for something that is 180 degrees in opposition to the truth. Like a magician, deception causes us to look at something else while the reality happens right under our noses.
If we are talking about a man then where is this guy. It is certainly not our former President Kennedy, for he is still dead. Does this eliminate a man in the future? No, but with all the ramifications this would have to be quite an event, especially since all the world follows this beast.
(The phrase “all the world” is not to be taken literally. If he is alive today I for one am not following him, as I am sure that would seal my fate as a worshiper of the beast. Although the influence will be wide-spread, to say all the world is an over generalization. Look at a CIA map and you will be able to see all the nations that are Islamic controlled and those that have a high percentage of Islamic influence. There are really only a few left that have not fallen under such control. Those nations that are Islamic controlled are operated under strict sharia laws, and those that are majority Islam generally have a free reign to brutalize Christians with no repercussions. Even here in America we are already experiencing Muslim men performing brutal “honor killings’ and attempting to get the courts to uphold their religious right to do so. England has Sharia run courts and such cases are tried in those, giving sadistic murderers the freedom to operate in accordance with the teaching of Islam, regardless of civility.)
Now place this same characterization upon a religious ideology, especially one that was declared abolished, and considered dead. Give it the name Islam with it’s goal of a global caliphate, and then take note of how vast it’s influence has become and the pieces of the puzzle begin to fit together rapidly.
If we consider the image that Daniel saw.
Daniel 2:32-33 KJV This image’s head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, (33) His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
Head – breast and arms – belly and thighs – legs of iron.
Three are clearly defined by history. They are kings in the earth and this was explained by the angel in Daniel chapter 7. What did not seem so clear are the legs of iron and then the feet.
The head of gold represented the Babylonian empire, of which Nebuchadnezzar reigned. Daniel spelled that out for us, so there is no question. We really should have no questions as to where to begin in our understanding of end times events. If there had been an unexplained crown of platinum then maybe.
The following is from: The Bible Knowledge Commentary;
The second portion of the statue, the chest and arms of silver, represented the rise of the Medes and Persians (cf. Dan_5:28; Dan_6:8; also cf. Dan_5:31). The Medo-Persians conquered the Babylonians in 539 b.c. Though that kingdom lasted over 200 years (539-330 b.c.), the Medo-Persian Empire was inferior to it, as silver compared with gold.
The belly and thighs of bronze represented the third kingdom to arise. This was the Grecian Empire (cf. Dan_8:20-21). Alexander the Great conquered the Medo-Persians between 334 and 330 b.c. and assumed authority over its peoples and territory. By Alexander’s conquests he extended the Greek Empire as far east as the northwestern portion of India ― an extensive empire that seemingly was over the whole earth.”
At this point we have covered the three known empires when you include the Babylonian empire. To some degree these all encompassed similar and yet growing territories. All these nations are representative of Ishmael and Esau. And they are now representative of Islam. The range of nations was from the Baltic region south and along the coast of northern Africa.
Look at all those nations today and you will find the demographic to be the same, Islamic.
Many would attribute the fourth empire to the Romans but there is an aspect that few pay attention to. By 69 AD conscript troops outnumbered those of Roman origin by a ratio of 5:1. Josephus tells us that there were as many as 6 legions in Jerusalem by 69AD with levels rising to about 60,000 by 70AD when the temple was destroyed. These conscripts were pulled from Arabia and Syria according to Josephus, and had no lack of hatred for the Jews.
Because the tradition is to use Daniel 9:26 as the basis for attributing the antichrist’s rise out of Rome, we have ignored a real and growing possibility – The beast is a middle easterner and a Muslim.
Misconceptions and tradition attributed the destruction of the temple in 70AD to Titus, a Roman, but history, through the pen of Josephus, records that a runner was sent to Titus to alert him that a fire had been started in the temple. Titus made all haste, dressed as he was, running to the temple, shouting orders and waving his right hand to indicate to the troops present that they should make all effort to extinguish the fire, for he perceived that it could presently be put out, therefore maintaining order. His commands were quickly weighed by those who hatred for the Jews outweighed the commanders decision to put out the fire, and they provoked the fire even more.
Effectively what we have is not Rome burning the temple, but Syrians and Arabians. If the destroyer that is to come, comes from those that destroyed the temple then he is coming from Syria or Arabia. Did it ever occur you that one of his names is the Assyrian. Even if we cannot pinpoint this man as coming out of these people, we can certainly say that he is coming from this region, and this region of the world is dominated by Islam.
I stated that this was a resurrection of the Ottoman empire, and that this was the head that sustained the wound. Based upon region, ethnic makeup, and religion, we know that it covered the same territories.
I already spelled out the demise of the Ottoman empire and that it operated under an Islamic caliphate. Since that was done away with, how is it that Islam has gained such a tremendous foothold? Clearly it was the head, the small horn, that has risen again.
Islam is not an overnight sensation, it has been a smoldering ember kept alive in tradition and fueled by Satan himself. It’s rebirth seems to have been ignited with Islamic revolution in which the American Embassy was taken hostage.
In Nebuchadnezzar’s dream the statue had aspects of the iron in the feet, but the clay made the feet very unstable and breakable. How does this relate to Islam? 1. Islam is run by two rival sects, the Shia and the Sunni’s. Although they both have Mohamed as the central core, many other aspects have driven them to fight viciously against each other. Though no longer making the news because the United States withdrew it’s troops, Iraq was a vivid demonstration of Islam’s internal struggles as they would car and suicide bomb each other. The only thing that I see giving them any stability is their hatred of Christians, people of the book, and Jews. Their primary purposes on this earth is subjugation of those who do not worship Allah and the killing of the Jews and Christians who will not convert.
Again I wish to say that the intent of the paper “A Short Course on the Book of Revelation” was to present a brief overview of the Revelation. There is no way I could present a defense of every aspect without turning it into a 600 page thesis. There are some things in this life that you just have to research.
In my own life I chose at some point to consider possibilities outside of tradition. In all honesty, that requires some stability because at your core, you need to have a strong relationship with Yahweh, or you stand a chance of becoming not so much lost, but a nut case like so many others. I will give you a heads up here: God has demonstrated that he is a God of prosperity, but what does that mean. Abraham, like so many others that we look to, was a shepherd. Prosperity does not mean you drive around in a diamond encrusted car. I suspect it means that you have enough to help others when the time arises. One of the things that comes to mind as I write this was Abraham’s ability to mount an army from his hired hands and rescue his nephew Lot, on one occasion.
Some of those authors that recently opened my eyes are: Joel Rosenberg, Joel Richardson, Brigitte Gabriel, and Jonathon Cahn. I have a bible with commentaries by Finis Jennings Dake which I use all the time. I primarily appreciate that he extensively leads you back to other scripture references, and of course his commentaries (although I do not agree with him wholeheartedly.)
Allow me to recommend a book, “The Mideast Beast”, by Joel Richardson. This book has changed my thinking from the traditional fallacies that religion has taught me. Yes, I have to choose to be open-minded, but Joel does a very good job of making his scriptural case. I am reminded that “out of the mouth of two or three witnesses a thing shall be established”. I apply to scripture as well. If someone, or I presents a change from the norm, it behooves me to produce at least two witnesses. I prefer not lean toward grabbing two verses from say Ezekiel, but if I find that God has spoken to various authors along the same theme then I have corroboration, and a foundation for truth.
Even in a paper like this there may be those that read it without understanding. That can all change so quickly for you if you will choose to make the Messiah king, Jesus Christ the risen one, the Lord over your life. Ask him to make himself real to you and he will; he has never refused anyone. The Holy Spirit of God will come into and give you clarity as you choose to understand.
This is not about hatred, nor is it a call to rise up in anger. You can get angry but you need to react appropriately, in prayer. As a believer we have the right and authority to stop the enemy and the avenger. 2 Thessalonians 2:6 tells us that something is holding back the enemies full force, and that is the praying believer. Get direct, be specific, call out against those entities that have names; those things that are trying to take control of your life, your families, your community, your nation, and put a stop to it.
There is no doubt in my mind that the rapture is merely months away, but what of those that must survive the onslaught coming once the restrainers are gone. They have a hope as well, they just do not know it yet. God will send to prophets who will stand in the streets of Jerusalem and proclaim not only the good news that you can still come to Jesus Christ and have a life in him, but they will prove the power of God that you have denied all your life. Follow their ways and their words. Turn to God with all that is within you. You will have an overwhelming presence of peace as the world around you gets turned upside down. Use the name of Jesus, the Son of the living God like a tool and he will part waters for you. Be prepared unto the death, but don’t worry, God will raise you up again; I promise.
Sura 3:28 (From the Quran)
Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security. Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself. Unto Allah is the journeying.
I am to understand that this passage is the basis for all commentaries that define Taqiya.
Taqiya is considered the highest form of Jihad and is essentially the right to deceive the non-believer. Allow me to enlighten you, all who do not worship and serve Allah, are considered non-believers.
I showed up at “bible study” and the two men that were there were making the usual small talk. A fourth showed up within a few minutes and began to ask what the topic of discussion was. As no one offered anything I talked about what I am becoming most familiar with, end times. Currently I am entrenched in one of two things, the book of Daniel or a recent book I acquired called, “The Mideast Beast”, a scriptural look into the biblical evidence as to why we should be paying closer attention to Islam and why the Beast of scripture will come from the middle east.
Let’s analyze the passage above.
“Let not the believers…”
Christians might look at this and foolishly think it is talking about them. In order to give this perspective you need think in terms of Satan’s deception in leading people away from the Father and his Son, Jesus Christ.
“take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers…”
In every cult seclusion is a primary tool. If I can keep you away from the truth, then the only truth you will know will be what I tell you. The disbeliever is anyone outside of Islam. Perhaps a more precise explanation might be, those who are not followers of Allah. Apparently they can have friends to some degree that are outside the religion. Hillary Clinton has an aide with known Islamic terrorist associations, but then I suppose the real question is, how does one define friend?
From the website, The True origins of Allah
The True Origin of ‘Allah’: The Archaeological Record Speaks
The word “Allah” comes from the compound Arabic word, al-ilah. Al is the definite article “the” and ilah is an Arabic word for “god”, i.e. the god. We see immediately that (a) this is not a proper name but a generic name rather like the Hebrew El (which as we have seen was used of any deity; and (b) that Allah is not a foreign word (as it would have been if it had been borrowed from the Hebrew Bible) but a purely Arabic one. It would also be wrong to compare “Allah” with the Hebrew or Greek for God (El and Theos, respectively), because “Allah” is purely an Arabic term used exclusively in reference to an Arabic deity.
The Encyclopedia of Religion says: “‘Allah’ is a pre-Islamic name … corresponding to the Baylonian Bel” (ed. James Hastings, Edinburgh, T. & T. Clark, 1908, I:326).
This website has many links to established, historical information which defines the nature and character of Allah. I suggest you peruse them for yourself.
Another source that conveys a similar message is, http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/moongod.htm
They title their page Allah – the Moon God
“Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless …”
So merely to make friends with one of us non-believer endangers them to something other than a hope of an after life. By adding the wording “unless” tends to make it open ended. We will pursue that in just a moment.
If you were comparing religions you would find that Islam is dramatically different in this regard; we have a hope. This hope is integrally wrapped up in Jesus death and life on the cross, but Islam does not buy into that truth. According to them Jesus was rescued off the cross and never saw death for Allah took him. That of course negates any hope of salvation. Keep in mind the deception of Satan as he tries to lead as many away from God as possible.
A Muslims only hope comes when they spill their first drop of blood in an act Jihad. When you understand that aspect then you can understand why suicide bombings are a way of life for many of these people. This makes me think of a novel that I read. In it a Mullah, in the early days of the war between Iran and Iraq, made his own children, as so many others did, go off to war to be human bomb detectors. When his wife spoke out against his decision, the respected Mullah quietly pulled out a silver plated revolver and shot her point blank dead.
“ (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, …”
They, the Muslims, cannot make friends with us unless – they guard themselves against them. Let’s ponder this for a moment. While there are truly some people who like to bear the name Christian that I would not want to be around.
If I guarded myself against these cracked pots (That is really a good analogy if you think about it.) what would I be doing? Keeping whatever twisted theology and weird derisive mannerism from influencing me to the point where they can change my behavior and belief.
Whoa now!
So Islam feels the same way about us. They do not want you influencing and changing their people to believe something that might influence , hence change their beliefs and behavior.
Again, the least violent thing that happens to them, according to the Quran (Sura 3:28) is that they have no connection with Allah. I suppose that would be important if you had a hope. They try to live a fairly strict life according to Sharia laws, a set of guidelines that is wholly lopsided toward the man’s world. A loss of connection to the one that gave you a solid hope would earth shattering if I believed that.
In trying to talk to the three others at bible study this morning, one of them tried to lay the unlearned categorization of moderate Muslim on me. To use that term tells me that you are blind sided by their lies, or you are just too non-caring to find out what the truth is. To be a moderate Muslim is to be one that is not carrying out the demands that the Quran lays out, and is taught by the Mullah’s in their mosques. What I see happening is that those who, in opposition to the Quran, defying it’s commands, will be brought under the same threats of death that the non-believer eventually will.
You who do not believe this should try taking your religion of opposition to an Islamic controlled nation and try espousing what you believe. You will find yourself dead in a short period of time. Do not think that your religion of humanism will exclude you, for humanism says, “do what you want, with whomever.” Problem there is that Sharia law demands that homosexual be killed, and quickly. Under Sharia there is no freedom to do what you wish, unless of course your a man, and claim that the rape you committed was an act of Jihad and for Allah.
“taking (as it were) security. …”
To an outsider this could be a most difficult portion to define. For a bank to take security is to accept something as a guarantee of payment, but that is not the case here. No one is taking payment, they are trying to protect themselves as they do something contrary to what their religion teaches, sort of.
The website: http://www.islamreview.com/articles/lying.shtml has wealth of information and examples.
“Most Muslims are familiar with the principles of Islam that will justify lying in situations where they sense the need to do so. Among these are:
These principles are derived from passages found in the Quran and the Hadith.”
Back momentarily to the bible study group this morning. How long have we been hearing about the increasing impact of Islam on the “Christian” world? Quite awhile. For those paying attention it (the Islamic caliphate) was re-birthed around the mid 1970’s with the taking of the US Embassy in Tehran. Prior to that Persia/Iran was an interesting cultural experience. After this it began to become an ideology of hatred, bloodshed, and fear. And for what? Not to regain some lost ground in a war, but merely to express their hatred of any one that is Jewish or “people of the book”, in other words, the non-believer.
Let’s see if the Sura itself can define the answer.
“Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself….”
How would taking security of an outsider cause you to be afraid? It would not, so there is something else here. These people are lead to believe that non-believers are some kind of threat that they need to fear, and Allah has told them, through the Quran, that they are only to fear Allah. Therefore the security aspect has nothing to do with money but some method keeping themselves secure in Allah.
Now, play with that in your head. A method of keeping themselves secure in Allah. Seeing as what I read to the guys this morning indicated that Islamic scholars concur that this Sura 3:28 is essential in giving Muslims the right to self protection through deception.
I guess that begs the question – To what extreme do the Muslims carry out this self protection?
I shared this information with my girlfriend and she responds to me with questions like, “how does that make you feel?” She is talking about my comments concerning those we share the gospel of the risen Jesus with. If she felt that I did not give her a straight answer then she will still feel that way, for I do not know. I know that it sickens me, for my life is based upon honesty and honest responses. Once again I said, “you just have to leave it to God to sort it out, not me.
I sat in the break room at work reading a book called, “The Islamic Antichrist” by Joel Richardson. A lady that works there sat next to me and ask me what I was reading. She is a Muslim and by the definition of foolish Christians, a moderate. I was not so kind in my response, and to be honest, I am imploring you to be civil in your dealings with those outside the Christian faith. She responded to what I said with, “we believe in Jesus.” If you do not understand what Islam teaches you could be duped into believing in Allah over the living God because of a statement like that. Jesus warned us of this when he said, Matthew 24:24 ESV “For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.”
Do not be foolish enough to think that you are invincible. Until that day, as stated in Isaiah 13:16 ESV, “Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes; their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished.” you do not know what you will do.
Again I quote from the website:
” Allah will not call you to account for what is futile in your oaths, but He will call you to account for your deliberate oaths: for expiation, feed ten indigent persons, on a scale of the average for the food of your families; or clothe them; or give a slave his freedom. If that is beyond your means, fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths ye have sworn. But keep to your oaths. Thus doth Allah make clear to you His signs, that ye may be grateful.” Surah 5:89
“Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness (vain) in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing.” Surah 2:225
“Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief, except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith – but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.” Surah 16: 106
The noted Islamic commentator, Al-Tabary explained Surah 16:106 as a verse that had been revealed to Mohammed after he learned that Ammar Ibn Yasser was forced to deny his faith in Mohammed when kidnapped by the Banu Moghera tribe. Mohammed consoled Ammar by telling him, “If they turned, you turn.” (Meaning: if they again capture you, you are allowed to deny me again.)
These and similar passages from the Quran clearly reveal that Muslims’ unintentional lies are forgivable and that even their intentional lies can be absolved by performing extra duties. It is also clear that if forced to do so, Muslims can lie while under oath and can even falsely deny faith in Allah, as long as they maintain the profession of faith in their hearts.
In the Hadith, Mohammed, emphasizes the same concept.
From “Ehiaa Oloum al-Din,” by the famous Islamic scholar al-Ghazali, Vol. 3: PP.284-287:
One of Mohammed’s daughters, Umm Kalthoum, testified that she had never heard the Apostle of Allah condone lying, except in these three situations:
One passage from the Hadith quotes Mohammed as saying: “The sons of Adam are accountable for all lies except those uttered to help bring reconciliation between Muslims.”
Another says, “Aba Kahl, reconcile among people.”(Meaning: even through lying.)
The following quote demonstrates the broadness of situations in which the prophet permitted lying. “The sons of Adam are accountable for all lies with these exceptions: During war because war is deception, to reconcile among two quarreling men, and for a man to appease his wife.”
The Arabic word, “Takeyya”, means “to prevent,” or guard against. The principle of Al Takeyya conveys the understanding that Muslims are permitted to lie as a preventive measure against anticipated harm to one’s self or fellow Muslims. This principle gives Muslims the liberty to lie under circumstances that they perceive as life threatening. They can even deny the faith, if they do not mean it in their hearts. Al-Takeyya is based on the following Quranic verse:
“Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution (prevention), that ye may Guard yourselves from them (prevent them from harming you.) But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.” Surah 3: 28
According to this verse a Muslim can pretend to befriend infidels (in violation of the teachings of Islam) and display adherence with their unbelief to prevent them from harming him.
Under the concept of Takeyya and short of killing another human being, if under the threat of force, it is legitimate for Muslims to act contrary to their faith. The following actions are acceptable:
Unfortunately, when dealing with Muslims, one must keep in mind that Muslims can communicate something with apparent sincerity, when in reality they may have just the opposite agenda in their hearts. Bluntly stated, Islam permits Muslims to lie anytime that they perceive that their own well-being, or that of Islam, is threatened.”
As I always try to do when writing.-
I implore you to pray at all times.
Pray for their salvation;
Pray for those being persecuted in Muslim nations;
Pray that God withstands the attempts of Muslims to permeate our government, as they attempt to take our freedoms.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-6 ESV (3) Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, (4) who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. (5) Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? (6) And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
Do not respond in hatred toward the Muslims, but respond in love. Stand fast in the conviction that God is in control, no matter what comes. And above all pray. Pray that God invades their dreams with visions and images of Jesus Christ the risen one, and that they come to a knowledge of him.
You need to understand that time is short, much shorter than you think. Iran believes this so wholeheartedly that they are willing to make the end come about through a massive display of violence. Pay attention to what is going on around you in the world. Most of what you hear is not conspiracy but reality, and as I said, part of God’s plan. This is precisely what the prophecies about the end times have been telling you, had you been paying attention.