The Mouth that roared. Revelation 13:5-7

Revelation 13:5 KJV And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

“There was given …”

The word given is the Greek word didōmi; reduplicated from the root δοdo-; to give(in various senses lit. or fig.): – add (1), allow (2), bestowed (4), cause

So one might say the beast was:

  • given

  • allowed

  • bestowed with

  • or caused to

To what? We will get to that.

If the beast, in this passage, is not a man, then who or what is being given a spokesman/mouth? Think about it. The dragon gives the beast not only power, but now either the beast or some aspect of the beast is given a spokesman.

In one of my recent posts we gained a strong visual description of a beast. I believe that though not defined, this is the same beast, and it looks nothing like a man.

Revelation 13:1-2 KJV And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. (2) And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

If this beast, in its original state, has multiple heads (ruling bodies) and is shaped like something that looks like it could be interpreted as three different animals, then where could God have gotten something that matches that image?

As I read Daniel one day it occurs to me that Daniel was shown in a vision a modern map with the nations marked out that matched that of the Babylonian empire, the Medo-Persian empire, Alexandrian empire, and the Ottoman empire. The Roman empire may have been there but out of context, for the angel did not speak to Daniel of the Roman empire, but he did speak of a mystery empire and said, it is not like the others.

Try describing the outline of what you see when you look at the territories these nations embodied. Something that should catch your attention is that they are all heavily, if not primarily Muslim. Two, they, if you use your imagination, look like they could easily represent the three animals that Revelation 13:1-2 describes. I can hear many of you scoffing and laughing; really? I have never been able to look up at a sky full of stars and say, oh! I see Capricorn, or Sagittarius. I think you get the picture, and yet you are far more agreeable with that line of thinking. Sadly many of you follow Astrology more closely than you follow God.

unto him…”

We have not changed subjects or context. The “him” is the same as in verse 2 of Revelation, and the him is not identifiable as a man as yet. It is however an authoritative body or an angel with a distinct name, and yet that name is not given. I can make a huge assumption here with the name Allah.

If this beast is the demonic/fallen angel whose name is Allah, then it makes all the sense in the world for Satan/the dragon to transfer his power to him. No one is looking in the right direction, they all have their attention turned to Satan, the deceiver, while this whatever gears up the Muslim world against anything that looks like God, and obtains a spokes person that is so charismatic, handsome, and authoritative that no one challenges him.

Consider this. Islam is founded upon Mohammed relating what an angel, an angel which tried to kill him, told him. No one in Islam, in comparison to men like Moses or Abraham, has ever heard from God and yet they call him Allah and anxiously await his two representatives, the 12th or hidden Imam, and his deputy Jesus.

What did Paul tell us believers?

Galatians 1:8 NASB But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

Sadly Mohammed did not hear this message, but we have, and we should have our eyes wide open so that we are not deceived.

If you’re a believer in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the risen one from the dead, then this detailed description of the Islamic Jesus should be an eye opener.

Isa ( Arabic: عيسىTransliteration: ʿĪsā ), known as Jesus in the New Testament is considered to be a Messenger of God and the Masih (Messiah) in Islam[1] who was sent to guide the Children of Israel (banī isrā’īl) with a new scripture, the Injīl or Gospel.[2] The belief in Jesus (and all other messengers of God) is required in Islam, and a requirement of being a Muslim. The Quran mentions Jesus by name twenty-five times, while it only mentions Muhammad by name four times.[3][4] It states that Jesus was born to Mary (Arabic: Maryam) as the result of virginal conception, a miraculous event which occurred by the decree of God (Arabic: Allah). To aid in his ministry to the Jewish people, Jesus was given the ability to perform miracles (such as healing the blind, bringing dead people back to life, etc.), all by the permission of God rather than of his own power. According to the Quran, Jesus, although appearing to have been crucified, was not killed by crucifixion or by any other means, instead, “God raised him unto Himself”. Like all prophets in Islam, Jesus is considered to have been a Muslim (i.e., one who submits to the will of God), as he preached that his followers should adopt the “straight path” as commanded by God. Islam rejects the Trinitarian Christian view that Jesus was God incarnate or the son of God, that he was ever crucified or resurrected, or that he ever atoned for the sins of mankind. The Quran says that Jesus himself never claimed any of these things, and it furthermore indicates that Jesus will deny having ever claimed divinity at the Last Judgment, and God will vindicate him.[5] The Quran emphasizes that Jesus was a mortal human being who, like all other prophets, had been divinely chosen to spread God’s message. Islamic texts forbid the association of partners with God (shirk), emphasizing a strict notion of monotheism (tawhīd).

Numerous titles are given to Jesus in the Quran and in Islamic literature, the most common being al-Masīḥ (“the messiah”). Jesus is also, at times, called “Seal of the Israelite Prophets”, because, in general Muslim belief, Jesus was the last prophet sent by God to guide the Children of Israel. Jesus is seen in Islam as a precursor to Muhammad, and is believed by Muslims to have foretold the latter’s coming.[6][7]Jesus in Islam From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I am not speaking this way, nor sharing this information with you to berate Islam. I am trying to get believers in Jesus Christ and God’s word to open their eyes and their minds to something outside of persistent tradition. It is this tradition that has kept your understanding clouded and darkened, and prevents you from seeing the truth.

Let me just add that scripture tells us that God will awaken the people of Iran and Egypt to revival. He will pour out his spirit upon them and pull them into the kingdom. It is happening as we speak. Stand in the way and you will get run over. Join me in prayer for the people of the mid-east as God invades their lives with dreams and vision, and awakens them to life. Jesus Christ, the son of God is life and life cannot be found in any other.

a mouth …”

If we had talked about a man he would have already had a mouth. I believe that this is telling us that whoever or whatever this is suddenly has spokesman. If the beast is Allah then the spokesman becomes the coming Mahdi who is supposed to speak for Allah. Makes sense doesn’t it?

If this is an authoritative body such as Islam, then someone has to speak for it. Currently many seem to be speaking for Islam. Their stories are not that much different, but this passage clearly indicates that one person will step forward.

As I was writing on my notepad I could not pull my mind away from a video I watched of Ken Peters as he told of a dream he had about the time immediately after the rapture. As I began to search the Internet to find it again so many had been removed due to copyright infringements. I found this link and it is still up.

What I valued about this man was his humility. What I remember was the imagery that I saw in my spirit as he described the image of the smooth talking Antichrist that showed up on every large screen. Somehow I could see this face on an electronic billboard next to the freeway. Keep in mind that Ken would not have known of video images of that size even being capable at that time, and besides that we did not even have cell phones in 1981. I do not think that most people comprehend the confusion and terror that will ensue immediately after the rapture of the church. Those who have been on the edge of truth, such as cult religious groups, will be wailing as they realize that they had been deceived.

“..speaking great things.”

The old standard, The King James version says it well but does give us the depth I feel we need to understand what this spokesman is doing.

Revelation 13:5 KJV And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Read this version which still does not translate the seriousness and nature of the this spokesman but is taking us more toward the right direction.

Revelation 13:5 NIrV The beast was given a mouth to brag and speak evil things against God. The beast was allowed to use his authority for 42 months.

We tend to apply great to ball players that get inducted into the hall of fame, and if that is the connotation God intended for us to apply then this must be a great guy and we need to listen to him.

I referred you to a Ken Peters video in which he described a spokesman who comes on the scene after the rapture of the church. This spokesman in his 1981 dream was handsome, smooth talking, and no one contested anything he implemented.

If I were to analyze the word based upon what I think or understand then I would say the first word that comes to mind is boastful. I associate that term with sports “jocks”, even if they are incapable of competing themselves they are self-enamored and arrogant.

Suppose that this spokesman’s talk pertains more toward the plans he has. That becomes scary if it involves the loss of more of my rights at his pleasure.

The Greek word for great is MEGAS. Does Great White Shark ring a bell.

megas; a prim. word; great: – abundant (1), all the more (1), arrogant (1), big (2), completely *(1), fierce (2), – From New American Standard(r) Updated Edition Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible with Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Dictionaries

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the President of Iran, has spewed forth great things such as how his nation will wipe Israel off the map. President Morsi of Egypt has also been saying great things, again directed at Israel’s destruction.

As a side note: Moses was asked to be God’s spokesman, a mouth so to speak to Israel. The oddity is that he complained that he could not speak. A strange statement having been raised in the Egyptian courts where he may have been trained to be a Pharaoh.

“and blasphemies..”

Focus on the word blasphemies for a moment. Christians have spoken in fear of this word since Christianity began, mostly because they were not solidly fixed on the hope we have in Christ, and they did not have a confidence and trust in God; fearing that they might have said a blasphemous thing that would exclude them from God’s presence. It is sickening what we have done to ourselves. The other side of this fear comes from preachers and people using the word to control and manipulate people.

Do you not understand that Christ’s death was enough, and that he paid the price for sin, ONCE, for all.

Jesus Christ defined blasphemy for us as he accosted the Pharisees for attributing the things of God to the devil.

Mark 3:22-30 NASB The scribes who came down from Jerusalem were saying, “He is possessed by Beelzebul,” and “He casts out the demons by the ruler of the demons.” (23) And He called them to Himself and began speaking to them in parables, “How can Satan cast out Satan? (24) “If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. (25) “If a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. (26) “If Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but he is finished! (27) “But no one can enter the strong man’s house and plunder his property unless he first binds the strong man, and then he will plunder his house. (28) “Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; (29) but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”– (30) because they were saying, “He has an unclean spirit.”

What did this spokesman say that caused him to be labeled a blasphemer? The passage at hand does not tell us, but the next one might give us a clue.

Revelation 13:6 CEV The beast cursed God, and it cursed the name of God. It even cursed the place where God lives, as well as everyone who lives in heaven with God.

So he talks big and has the support to carry out what he says, but in addition he speaks against God. It almost seems that the mouth attributes anything we would consider Godly to another god, a satanic empowered entity. Remember – the dragon/Satan empowers the beast which can be an individual or a character, perhaps demonic, with a name like Allah.

Odd how silent Dake’s is on this blasphemy aspect. The concept of blasphemy is huge in religious circles. Many are quick to point out what they feel is blasphemy on our part, while others worry if they have committed the unpardonable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

If Jesus defined blasphemy as attributing his good works to the devil then what does it look like when the emissary of the dragon, the Antichrist does it. As a representative of Satan, empowered by Satan, his statements feel like truth to him. Therefore the words of Jesus Christ, the truth in the flesh, the man Islam calls the Dijal, would be the words of evil and the Antichrist should feel compelled to denigrate the name of God and his son.

“and there was given to him authority to go on for forty-two months.”

Revelation 13:5 KJV And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

42 months; that equals three and one half years. That should register loudly for that takes us half way through the time of wrath or the tribulation years.

Hang on, let’s talk about the tribulation for a moment. I have held that the tribulation comes after the rapture. I feel as though I have a solid foundation for believing that, and it has to do with Jesus’ statements in Matthew 25. In Matthew’s gospel he relates how Noah and Lot were rescued just prior to the judgment that fell on the people. (I have a friend who is adamant that judgment is merely specific periods and not the entire time frame.) Apply some logical thought based upon context. Part of our context comes from Matthew’s gospel as well as the Old Testament prophets. If you read both of those stories from your bible you will find that trouble was all around these two heroes of the bible. To be painfully honest and a little sarcastic, some people think tribulation is not being able to upgrade your car so that it excels your neighbors. This sickens me, and I suspect it sickens God as well. Folks, unless you have lived under a rock, there are many of us that are surrounded by trouble. Some are being killed and others suffer through constant stress and threats of physical harm in their daily lives. Tribulation comes in many forms, but do not tell me that the Christians of Nigeria, Chad, Sudan, India, Egypt, Iran, Syria, etc., are not facing hard tribulation as we speak.

Be clear on this. The tribulation that is coming will make these daily tribulations look like a trip through Disneyland.

“And he opened his mouth”

Revelation 13:6 NASB And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven.

The beast cursed God, and it cursed the name of God.”

The rapture comes and almost simultaneously the Mahdi of Islam shows up. We have called this man who is to come the mouth/spokesman, but Islam calls him the Mahdi.

In Islamic eschatology, the Mahdi (Arabic: مهدي‎ / ISO 233: mahdī / English: Guided One) is the prophesied redeemer of Islam who will rule for seven, nine or nineteen years- (according to various interpretations)[1] before the Day of Judgment (yawm al-qiyamah / literally, the Day of Resurrection)[2] and will rid the world of evil.[3]

In Shia Islam, the Mahdi is believed to be the Twelfth Imam, Muhammad al-Mahdi, whose return from occultation will be the return of the Mahdi.[4]

Isa will return to aid Mahdi, or the guided one, against Masih ad-Dajjal, the false messiah, and his followers.[5] He will descend at the point of a white arcade, east of Damascus, dressed in yellow robes with his head anointed[citation needed]. He will then join the Mahdi in his war against the Dajjal. Isa will slay Dajjal, and unite humanity.Sahih Muslim, 41:7023 (From

Do you find any correlations in here?

If the rapture has comes and almost simultaneously the Mahdi orchestrates a seven-year peace agreement with Israel and almost immediately they begin building the temple once again.

Whoa! How and where did Israel get the temple mount land back? Islam is not going to give that mosque up for a second, so something else cataclysmic happens that makes it possible for Israel to rebuild the temple. (Read Ezekiel 38, 39) A war in which God steps in and intervenes, and it sounds like it has a nuclear aspect to it for God’s fire falls on a multitude of Muslim nations.

We tend to assume that the Antichrist gives Israel the freedom to take back what they need to build their temple. Don’t plan on it.

What else is happening at the same time?

The two witnesses from God show up. I strongly suspect they will take an active role in the protection of the temple during the time they are on the earth. How would I know that? Because they spew fire out of their mouths at anyone that attempts to harm them. Take this thought one step farther. The first attempts to kill the witnesses might be with bricks thrown at them. Those men will be burned up and will not get the opportunity to throw their bricks. Seeing that men cannot get close them they will bring out the guns. Obvious frontal attacks will not work and those men will be toasted. Snipers will be brought in to kill them, and they will be killed with fire from the mouths of the witnesses. You are not even going to take them until God says so, just like Jesus who told the Romans that they could do nothing if he had not permitted it.

The two witnesses stand in Jerusalem for how long? The same amount of time that it takes for the Antichrist/mouth/spokesman to break the treaty with Israel. So three and one half years after the rapture all hell breaks loose. The Antichrist may not wait until that time frame to speak against the tabernacle of God, and it is purely conjecture to assume that the tabernacle would be the new temple, but it is a logical choice.

Who is in heaven at this point?

The rapture has come and gone, so who is in heaven at this point?

  • The raptured church

  • Christ

  • God, the Father

  • Those that have gone before

  • The martyred saints since the rapture

  • Angels

What purpose does it serve to blaspheme God and those who cannot hear you, and you cannot harm? None, unless you believe that what you are saying is true, and wish to convince others.

Islam believes in one god, theirs, and his name is Allah. The devout, they are called Twelvers in Muslim circles, those who anxiously await the last prophet, Imam al- Mahdi, also await their Jesus/Isa. This Jesus is not the same as the Son of God who is returning for his church. Their Jesus fits precisely into the mold of the false prophet of scripture.

If you awaited someone who was in complete opposition to God what do you expect him to say. For one he will demand that the people of the earth worship no one but the image of the beast that is made to speak.

We are not there yet but the beast of Revelation 17 looks remarkably like the beast of Revelation 13. One is Satan, the other looks like Satan and obtains his power. The Antichrist is Satan’s representative on earth.

“ make war with the saints and to overcome them..”

Revelation 13:7 NASB It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.

Again we see that part of his empowerment is to make war with the saints.

We should already know the answer to this but who are the Saints? Anyone who comes to Jesus Christ after the rapture and lives out this testimony by their words and actions. The majority will lose their heads as martyrs and some will be imprisoned. Revelation 13:10 is rather cryptic in the King James but look at some of the other translations and you get a clear picture of saints taken prisoner.

Revelation 13:10 CEV If you are doomed to be captured, you will be captured. If you are doomed to be killed by a sword, you will be killed by a sword. This means that God’s people must learn to endure and be faithful!

If you think going through the tribulation as a believer will be easy you are wrong. Though it is possible that it is all just a nasty rumor the Department of Homeland Security is buying 2700 tank like vehicles and enough bullets for a 24 year war. Why? Internal security.

Why is this important in light of the Antichrist’s making was on the saints? Because though some might feel secure in saying that the influence of the Antichrist will only be in the middle east, there are clear signs that even in the United States of America preparations are being made to apprehend and inter anyone that speaks out against the government or fails to comply. FEMA already has the pow camps ready. So do not be oblivious to the signs around you.

What is it that scripture calls on us to do about it? Not to panic, PRAY. We who pray are holding back the enemy until we, the church, are returned to the Father’s arms.

I falsely thought that once Satan was cast out of heaven to the earth, that he no longer had any place in heaven, but then in my studies I am reminded of Job’s episode where Satan presents himself before God and discusses Job in particular. Obviously I was wrong, but in Revelation 12 we have Satan finally excluded from the presence of God where he has been busy pointing out our failures before God.

Revelation 12:13 KJV And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Finally thrown out he goes after the woman, Israel. Is that happening as we speak? You bet it is. God protects Israel who escapes out of the grasp of the enemy. Angered the dragon, now empowering the Antichrist, goes after those left on earth who belong to God.

Revelation 12:17 KJV And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

It is obvious that there is a timing here and it primarily happens within the 7 years of wrath. The idea of the beast making war against the saints indicates an active pursuit.

Concerning power over all.

Again, to those who cling to a strict middle eastern conflict, there is the aspect of Revelation 13:7 KJV which states:

and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”

The word kindred in the Greek is phulē and means tribe. When dealing with the Middle eastern people what is their identity wrapped up in? Tribes. For the scripture to say that the beast has power over kindred, then is it not saying that he has power over his own?

There is a common thread, almost like DNA, that runs through the nations involved in gathering against Israel and are represented by the beast. Since I believe that our last beast is the Islamic empire, but explicitly starts with the Babylonian empire, from where? The birthplace of Abraham. Challenged, Muslims will quickly trace their heritage back to Abraham. This tends to enforce the idea of having a global effect as you look at all the nations in which Islam has grasped a solid hold.

Dake’s goes to great lengths discussing 15 proofs that the Antichrist will not be world-wide. I have pondered these ideas and a few of my own and I can definitely say I am not sure.

    • The idea that everyone must take a mark to buy or sell.

      Even with the advanced technology in the world there are still places in the world that run on the barter system and do just fine.

      I listened to Walid Shoebat speak about the mark of the beast and he says this concept is strongly an Islamic practice.

      Jizya – From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

      “Under Islamic law, jizya or jizyah (Arabic: جزية‎ ǧizyah IPA: [dʒizja]; Ottoman Turkish: cizye;) is a per capita tax levied on a section of an Islamic state‘s non-Muslim citizens, who meet certain criteria. The tax is and was to be levied on able-bodied adult males of military age and affording power[1] (but with specific exemptions).[2][3] From the point of view of the Muslim rulers, jizya was a material proof of the non-Muslims’ acceptance of subjection to the state and its laws, “just as for the inhabitants it was a concrete continuation of the taxes paid to earlier regimes.”[4] In return, non-Muslim citizens were permitted to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy, to be entitled to the Muslim state’s protection from outside aggression, and to be exempted from military service and the zakat taxes obligatory upon Muslim citizens.[5][6

      This idea of subordination that allows to you continue living as you are without complying with the demands of worship sounds so benign. To bad it won’t happen that way during Antichrist’s war against the saints. While we made it clear that many will be captured and probably tortured, most will be killed as they refuse to comply.

  • According to Walid Shoebat the idea of taking a mark is not a new idea either. He noted in the movie, The Kingdom of heaven in which the crusader were beaten down and captured by Saladin, the one thing that the movie captured well, according to Walid Shoebat, was that the armies of Saladin had arm bands and head bands had the same words found in the Arabic translation of the bible, which the early bible translators interpreted as 666. Those words in Arabic convey, “There is no god but Allah, and Mohammed is his messenger!” You will be forced to identify as one who complies with the demands of Allah and false prophet.

    I tried to find a photo of this armband. Many wear alternate versions that state the same things. The except below is from an Islamic website. Note how they define what you do to become a Muslim.

    There is no god except Allah and Muhammad is a messenger of Allah.This is the statement that qualifies someone as a Muslim. If you are convinced of this at some point then you are a Muslim.

Formally someone becomes a Muslim by saying – in front of witnesses – “I witness that there is no god except Allah and that Muhammad is a messenger of Allah.”

To understand this statement fully some explanation is needed of the word ‘god’. A god is understood to mean anything or anyone who you use to set your values in life; to determine how you judge a matter as good or bad and how therefore you live your life. A god is also someone or something that people try to keep happy so that it may be able to change their lives and make those people happy. Since every human being by nature forms value judgments everyone has at least one god.

What is your god? Is it your desires? – Is it your work? – Is it fashion? – Is it your family? – Is it your nation? – Is it your church?

Whatever your gods may be, becoming a Muslim frees you from the service of them and brings you to the service of Allah and only Allah.

Believing that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah flows from believing in the Qur’an.

Think about where else you might have seen something like this marking. Under Nazi occupation the Jews were forced to wear a yellow star of David and beneath it was the word Juden. That way they were easily identified.

Scripture makes it clear that taking the mark and worshiping the beast will exclude you from God’s presence for ever.

  • There is no country in which Islam is not a growing concern.

  • Given that “the prince” or the “mouth” comes out of the people who destroyed the temple, then that tends to make him a middle easterner and most likely a Muslim.

    Dake’s states, “all these passages is simply a figure of speech – synochdoche in which a whole is put for a part..” Do we have an example of this? Absolutely. When Nebuchadnezzar ordered everyone to bow before his statue scripture tells us that everyone did except the 3 hebrew children (It is specific about noting them for they are an part of God’s influence on Nebuchadnezzar and an aspect of Daniel’s life.) and yet Daniel was not there. Clearly the words everyone did not work here.

  • Dake’s also points out that Revelation 13 itself limits the kingdom of Antichrist to the 10 kingdoms.

    This idea makes sense but here are a couple of problems I have with it. Even without the unity of the 10, Islam and Jihad is being felt all over the world, directed at those that fit the group of the big and little satan.

    Where are these ten nations? Algiers, Tangiers, Libya, Chad, Sudan, Ethiopia, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Turkey, and the southern nations of the former Soviet Union. Many are not typical and though Islam’s hatred is dispensed from many other places I have already exceeded the 10.

As always I implore you to turn your life over to the risen Christ, Jesus. Only through him can you obtain salvation from the wrath that is to come, and a hope of life within the Father’s arms. Paul tells us that in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye all will be changed; all the pain, torment, anguish, fear, and hopelessness of this damaged life. That hope begins in Jesus Christ. All creation is damaged by the fall of the original man and everything in you cries out to mask the pain and fix it. There is only one fix and that was the blood of Jesus poured out upon the cross. He died that we might live. Should you come to him will your life become roses and fairy tales? No, but you will have a peace in knowing that life himself resides in you. Turn your life to him, the Father awaits you.

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2 Responses to The Mouth that roared. Revelation 13:5-7

  1. Outpourings says:

    Greetings in the name of Jesus and I hope you are covered by his blood. The mouth that roared is never the muslim movement in the singular .because throughout history they had never truly had world dominance Or conquered as much as the Pagan Roman Empire. Nor persecuted so many of God’s people during their rule . Even during our Christ’s human present on earth they were firmly in power and ruled the holy land of Israel . Pagan Rome in this passage is the dragon symbol gave its power to Christendom papacy Rome around 476 AD. Around the middle ages They had brought christianity in to the dark ages of a prophetical period of 1260 years or 42 months . Where bible abiding Christians were denied the right to read the bible and many persecuted for defying the papacy rule that was enforced by the state. Such as the long like of Sunday worship., paying indulgence, and purgatory and all the other laws of a man ‘mouth of a lion.’ Of course inDaniel 7 Daniel’s dream was of a-lion that was symbolic of Babylon the kingdom of King Nebuchadnezzar.


    • remso says:

      This is the original comment.

      “Greetings in the name of Jesus and I hope you are covered by his blood. The mouth that roared is never the muslim movement in the singular .because throughout history they had never truly had world dominance Or conquered as much as the Pagan Roman Empire. Nor persecuted so many of God’s people during their rule . Even during our Christ’s human present on earth they were firmly in power and ruled the holy land of Israel . Pagan Rome in this passage is the dragon symbol gave its power to Christendom papacy Rome around 476 AD. Around the middle ages They had brought christianity in to the dark ages of a prophetical period of 1260 years or 42 months . Where bible abiding Christians were denied the right to read the bible and many persecuted for defying the papacy rule that was enforced by the state. Such as the long like of Sunday worship., paying indulgence, and purgatory and all the other laws of a man ‘mouth of a lion.’ Of course inDaniel 7 Daniel’s dream was of a-lion that was symbolic of Babylon the kingdom of King Nebuchadnezzar. “

      My general response:

        Wow, greetings in the name of Jesus to you also.

      I also hope you are covered by his blood because your hostile attitude doesn’t demonstrate His love. I said it in this manner, because, while it may be important to have a lively discussion, attacking people for stating their opinion – based in facts, is not what I deem a lively discussion. I have a leftist living in my home and this time of Presidential transition has been impossible, in terms of conversation, as she bases her arguments on emotion and not facts, just as you have. It would seem that raising your voice to an angry level is supposed to help win your argument, but you are wrong, and I need you to know that you have NOT gained any sense of respect from me by the tone I perceive in your comments. Strangely, I am prone to allow remarks in opposition to remain as comments on my blog so that others can comprehend the type of garbage that many of us have been dealing with for most of our Christian lives. Surely you did not think I would let your attack just slide by.
      You said, “The mouth that roared is never the muslim movement in the singular.”
      Let’s tackle this for a moment. First, I do not and cannot understand your statement. It is certainly not a question, nor is it a respectable argument in rebuttal to anything I may have said in my post. In Daniel chapter seven we are given two examples of a mouth. One is the description and the other is the explanation – a fourth beast, out of which comes a little horn (another kingdom,) and out of this kingdom comes its spokesperson.
      Daniel 7:7-8 NASB “After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. (8) “While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth uttering great boasts.
      We are NEVER given a firm definition of who the fourth empire is, like we are with the first three. So arbitrarily assigning Rome as the fourth empire does not work scripturally. Historically, we know that the third empire was the Grecian under Alexander, but few pay attention to the fact that upon Alexander’s death, the empire fell under the rule of two remaining generals – Seleucid, in the North, and Ptolemy in the South. After the demise of these final two sub-empires there were the Parthians and the Sassanids. In Joel Richardson’s book, The Mideast Beast, he states: “Because of their Persian ethnicity and identity, the Parthians and Sassanids were not treated as distinct empires within Nebuchadnezzar’s dream;”and yet, we ignore them as the potential fourth empire; this is an interesting and yet confusing way to handle the interpretation of the iron legs of a statue.
      The next passage conveys Daniel’s desire to know the exact meaning of the fourth beast. Why? Because it was different from all the others, as it had a mouth, and, it was significantly larger in appearance than the others. You can look this up in Daniel 7:19-20.
      We see this mouth one more time in the Revelation.
      Revelation 13:5-7 NASB There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him. (6) And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven. (7) It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him.
      Notice that here that “the mouth” speaks blasphemies. There should be an immediate association with the ministry of Christ when He told the pharisees that they were blaspheming – as they were attributing His actions of casting out a demon to the work and power of Satan/Beelzebub. With that information you can make a logical assessment as to what this “mouth” is saying.
      You said: “because throughout history they had never truly had world dominance Or conquered as much as the Pagan Roman Empire.”
      Again I refer to Joel Richardson and the Mideast Beast, where he states “The three other kingdoms that would be trampled and crushed, as we already know, are Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. The text is clear that the fourth kingdom would “crush” or conquer all three of these empires. The three empires never co-existed of course, and thus we must ask what the text means when it says that the fourth empire would “crush” all of the others.”
      Richardson goes to say, “the Roman Empire only conquered roughly one third of the regions controlled by Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. But roughly two thirds of the regions controlled by these empires were left entirely untouched by the Roman Empire. In fact, the Roman Empire never even reached the two Persian capitol cities of Ecbatana and Persepolis.”
      According to this information, you can see that the Roman empire NEVER obtained “world dominance” as you suggested.
      You continued your denunciation of the pagan Roman Empire by saying, “Nor persecuted so many of God’s people during their rule.”
      If you could segregate the actions of the Roman military from the governing body in Italy, you might be able to say that God’s people were not persecuted so frequently, but historically we cannot do that. We have at least a couple of examples of Rome’s (Nero) persecution. When Paul writes to the church in Rome it has barely been reestablished since the followers of Christ were driven out of Rome. In saying followers of Christ, our gentile minds only picture evangelical non-Jewish believers, when the majority of this body was just the opposite and gentile followers were in the minority. So when you say “God’s people” you must be talking about Jewish followers of Christ.
      Romans 16:3 NASB Greet Prisca and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus,
      We can learn that, “They had come to Corinth from Rome because of Claudius’ decree that all Jews must leave Rome” The Bible Knowledge Commentary adds: “Suetonius (a.d. 69?-140), a biographer of Roman emperors, described what may have been the occasion for such a decree. In his Life of Claudius (25.4) he referred to the constant riots of the Jews at the instigation of Chrestus. Possibly the name Chrestus is a reference to Christ.” Our strong assumption, is that these followers of Christ were doing everything possible to stand against unjust laws and therefore deemed trouble makers, just like today.
      It is obvious that persecution, under the Roman empire, was quite common for Jews and followers of Christ.
      Allow me to show one more example. As we fling about our traditional and fearful language about eschatology, we denounce anyone who suggests a potential timing of the Lord’s return. The blasting argument usually comes from Matthew 24:36 where Jesus, speaking to a Jewish audience, about Jewish things (in language they understood, but we Gentiles, because of a lack of teaching do not understand,) said,
      “but of that day and hour no one knows, not even the Son,…” But a dive into the surrounding events that would help us to understand we go to Daniel’s prophecies, and there we find a reference to the people of the prince.
      Daniel 9:26 NASB “Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.
      Preterists will argue that this scenario has been fulfilled. I suppose to them, that means we are living in the time of God’s wrath; that is NOT the case, and the event will have a second fulfillment. The point I want to make is that the people of the prince is an established, historical event, fulfilled initially during the rule of Titus Vespasian in 70 AD.
      You added: “Even during our Christ’s human present on earth they were firmly in power and ruled the holy land of Israel.”
      Rome comes into the picture only because: First, Rome conquered Jerusalem; Secondly, Herod’s temple was destroyed in 70 A.D. under the Roman rule of Titus , just as Jesus said it would. Sadly, few take this study of the destruction of the temple to the next step, as that is where we find Josephus and Tacitus. Both of these historians recorded that the destruction of the temple can be directly attributed to Assyrian conscript troops, who refused to follow orders to quench the fires that they had started because they had an open hatred of the Jews. Since we choose to read Daniel 9:26, where it says, the people of the prince that is to come, as Titus – the Roman, instead of what the historians provided – Assyrians. With such skewed information, we only have one logical conclusion, we must be looking for the Catholic Pope as the Antichrist, and that does not work. Therefore, our entire concept of eschatology is tainted by the false narrative of a final, Roman, world leader/Antichrist.
      Here, in this next set of run on sentences, you have run together multiple topics and idea to fuel some twisted theology.
      “Pagan Rome in this passage is the dragon symbol”
      What passage? You have not once referred to scripture, merely conjecture.
      If you did a search for “the dragon”, references that are significant primarily come out of the Revelation; there is, however, one found in Isaiah.
      Isaiah 27:1 ESV In that day the LORD with his hard and great and strong sword will punish Leviathan the fleeing serpent, Leviathan the twisting serpent, and he will slay the dragon that is in the sea.
      While, in the next verse, the dragon is referred to as a sign, it well understood to be Satan.
      Revelation 12:3-4 ESV And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems. (4) His tail swept down a third of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she bore her child he might devour it.
      We understand the woman to be Israel, and the child to be Yahshua/Jesus.

      (I must assume, in your story, that Rome would have,) “gave its power to Christendom papacy Rome around 476 AD.”
      There is a semblance of clarity, only because you initiated this barrage with “ Pagan Rome … is the dragon symbol.” The assumption, between two “Christians,” and you by your twisted theological references are inferring that you are one, is that we have this discussion based upon the Word of God. So, now we are back to scriptural associations found in the Revelation.
      Revelation 13:1-2 NASB And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names. (2) And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority.
      This says NOTHING about Rome, pagans – although we, outside of Judaism are thought of pagans, nor does it say anything about the papacy. So here, you have Rome playing the role of Satan and giving its power to the papacy. Much to far of a stretch for me.
      Your next dip into darkness rears it’s ugly head, as you refer to “they.” Since you have talked about your distaste for Romans and the papacy, I am NOT sure who you are referring to as you say, “Around the middle ages They had brought christianity in to the dark ages of a prophetical period of 1260 years or 42 months .”
      Since nothing happens outside of God’s plans and ordination, perhaps you should rethink much of this statement. I am not an expert at church history, and therefore, am not equipped to argue about who brought Christianity into the middle ages. I do not see how it is relevant to your life either.
      I did note that you had to drag numbers that are integrally associated with eschatology, but you did not put them into that setting. We find an association of this person with a mouth in the Revelation.
      Revelation 13:5 NASB There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him.
      I suspect you played with the numbers and found that 42 months, on a 30-day Jewish calendar, equals 1260 days. Bizarre, and yet fascinating that you would tie these numbers into Christianity coming into the middle ages.
      “Where bible abiding Christians were denied the right to read the bible and many persecuted for defying the papacy rule that was enforced by the state.”
      I think many of us are aware that the Catholic church was the state church. Their abuses, then, just as now, are, I am sure, an offense to God. I recently learned that it was the state church that changed the wording of 2 Thessalonians 2:3, where in the Greek the word apostasia was used. One of the earliest Bibles – the Geneva Bible properly translated apostasia as the departure – referring to the gathering of the church back to Jesus. The Catholic church ordered a rewrite that reflected their angst over people leaving the Catholic church for Protestantism, and hence the word apostasia was read as apostasy – a fallen away from, at the least, religion proper.
      If the Congress of the United States can be opened in prayer, by a Methodist minister, in “the name of the monotheistic god Brahman” we are deeply entrenched in apostasy.
      “Such as the long like of Sunday worship., paying indulgence, and purgatory and all the other laws of a man ‘mouth of a lion.’ Of course inDaniel 7 Daniel’s dream was of a-lion that was symbolic of Babylon the kingdom of King Nebuchadnezzar.”
      I am done with this commentary, as it makes little to no sense and I am exhausted trying to respond to you. It is quite obvious to me that you came here to pick a fight. I strongly suggest that you save a few dollars, stop buying the Starbucks, and buy yourself a grammar checker, like Grammerly. I say this because you have tried to come across as a learned scholar, but a quick glance at your commentary proved otherwise. I would have never let something like this out to public view.
      I will have no further conversations with you about this, and any continued belligerent hostility will result in your getting blocked.
      I close this with all the love you expressed to me.
      “I hope you are covered by his blood.”


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